No I didn't, because the Squeezebox can't handle 24Bit/96khz, it max's out at 24Bit/48Khz and I don't have any 24/48 music files.
I should also point out that I always keep the Digital Volume Control all the way up, on the Transporter and so I did the same for the Squeezebox. Both were ultimately running through an MBL 6010D Analog Preamp that controls the volume.
Rich |
Hi Audiogalore,
I have a Logitech Transporter and it has a good DAC, but not a great DAC. The sound may be described as a bit analytical as you've mentioned above. Although I have never listened to the Tri-Vista DAC, I doubt that the Logitech DAC will satisfy you, especially since you're use to listening to a tubed DAC. I have compared the Transporter DAC to a Benchmark DAC1 and a Bel Canto DAC3. I preferred the Bel Canto, then the Benchmark and then the Transporter. All comparisons were done using Apple Lossless files.
However, I will still wholeheartedly recommend that you consider purchasing the Transporter to use as your Music Streamer, as it is a big step up from the squeezebox which I also own, and especially since the Transporter will natively handle 24Bit/96Khz, which the squeezebox will not.
The Transporter is a great front end for the money, especially when hooked up to an external DAC. I'm currently using an MBL 1611F DAC, that can handle 24/192. I recently downloaded a few test tracks at 24/96 that sound amazing. I certainly plan on expanding my 24/96 collection, heavily in the next few months.
For what it's worth, I also compared the MBL 1621A transport to the Logitech Transporter and although the MBL 1621A was clearly better and 10 times the price, it certainly wasn't embarrassing for the Logitech, nor was it worth me getting up off the couch to change songs every few minutes. I would equate the sonic difference to, upgrading your stock power cables to high-end power cables.
Rich |
I will definitely say that the Transporter should not disappoint you, and yes it is close to some of the best transports available, as I've stated above in comparing it to the MBL 1621A transport.
I do not have any anti-jitter devices and I am getting phenomenal sound out of my current setup. I suspect that you may have some incorrect settings in your MAC Audio MIDI Setup or your iTunes setup. Furthermore the Transporter is much better than the Squeezebox, especially when using a balanced AES/EBU 110 ohm Digital Interconnect.
As it's getting late tonight, 2:30AM in NY, I will be happy to discuss this with you further, tomorrow.
Have a good night,
Rich |
Hi Guys,
I haven't listened to the Squeezebox 3 in my main rig for about 1 year and at that time I was using a Bel Canto DAC3 with the Transporter for the comparison, so this morning I hooked the Squeezebox up to my MBL 1611F DAC using a $40 optical monster cable, that I had borrowed from my MacPro and the Transporter was sporting a Kubala-Sosna 110 ohm AES/EBU Digital Cable and a Zu Audio Bok power cable.
I'm sure that we have all read the same threads claiming that the Squeezebox is as good as the Transporter is, if you're using an external DAC. Well, gentleman, after listening to the squeezebox this morning through some very expensive gear, I'm hear to say that you're both right, the squeezebox sounds terrible. In audiophile terms the squeezebox is lacking in; resolution, transparency, ambience, dynamics, harmonics, decay and PRAT and it's not even close. The Transporter blew the Squeezebox out of the water just like the shark was blown out of the water in the first Jaws Movie. So, this is what the Transporter is capable of when using an upgraded power cable and a high quality balanced digital interconnect.
So to be fair, I then used the cheapo monster cable hooked up to the MBL DAC and the Transporter just to see how much of the difference was attributed to the Cable and how much was attributed to the the different streamers. Well, let me tell you that the audiophile improvements followed the Transporter however, not nearly to the same degree while using the Kubala Digital Cable. I would also like to point out that the optical monster cable is terrible, however I didn't have a long enough 75ohm Digital SPDIF cable to reach all of the equipment in question.
I could also tell you that, you will be further rewarded when using a high quality balanced digital 110 ohm cable and upgraded power cable. In the past, I have also had great results with the relatively inexpensive ZU Audio Ash 110 ohm AES/EBU digital cable.
There is a website that talks about the Audio MIDI setup for the MAC and iTunes, which I will look for. But the consensus is that you must have the Digital Volume on your MAC fixed at the Maximum Volume. So, go into your MAC Applications folder, click on the Utilities folder, then click on the Audio MIDI Setup, then choose the Audio Devices tab, then under the PROPERTIES FOR pulldown; select built-in Digital Output, then under Audio output on the bottom right side, I have selected source: Digital Out, 96khz 2ch-24bit, (keep in mind that these format settings are only as good as the quality of your source music files) I believe your settings for DEFAULT OUTPUT AND SYSTEM OUTPUT, should be Built-in Line output if you have external speakers hooked up to your MAC.
These settings will fix your Volume Control to max, so that you will not clip any digital bits with the MAC's digital volume control. You have to restart iTunes for these settings to take effect.
Let me know how it goes.
Rich |
I forgot one setting. I also have BOTH the Default Output and System Output: set to Built-In Digital Output, but then your computer speakers may not play, unless you have an external DAC in between your computer speakers. To set the Digital Volume to Maximum, more permanently you must also select: DEFAULT OUTPUT as Built in Digital Output and to get external speakers to play without a DAC you will probably need to set, System Output to: Built-in Line Output.
My external speakers work with both Default Output and System Output set to Built-in Digital Output, because I have a Benchmark DAC in between my MAC and Computer Speakers.
Sorry, if any of the above settings are incorrect, but It's quite confusing to convey the settings, so maybe somebody else could find the website that better explains the settings.
Also make sure that you have the latest version of iTunes, and Squeeze Center, and make sure that your EQ settings in iTunes are turned off. I'm also using the Apple Lossless Format for Redbook and the Songbird Jukebox for the MAC with FLAC format for my 24bit/96khz files, since iTunes can't handle these, then you have to point your Squeezecenter Program to the appropriate High Def Music Folder where you stored your High Def, Songbird Music Files.
But as stated above you're right the Squeezebox is not very good, however, I continue to recommend the Squeezebox to non-audiophile friends and family, however if you're reading this, than you will most definitely enjoy the Transporter.
Rich |
You're Welcome!
If you select the Volume Control to Maximum, then this should essentially have the same exact effect as stated above, be sure not to blow out your desktop speakers when switching back and forth.
Hopefully, Audiogalore won't view this as a hijack, because he also raised some interesting questions and he also had some similar concerns.
Rich |
Hi Jglim,
Quote from Jglim: "From my reading of other people's reviews (no personal experience with transporter myself), the use of the transporter seems to outperform a DAC in the 2-3K region."
In my experience this has not been the case. As stated above, I feel that although the Transporter DAC was no slouch and it may certainly be considered pleasing, it was not able to outperform the $1000 Benchmark DAC1, nor the $2500 Bel Canto DAC3.
In other words, I feel that the Dac in the Transporter is good enough to allow an audiophile who doesn't own an external DAC, to live with it happily for a year or so, until they may be able to upgrade to a stand-alone DAC.
However, when the Transporter was used as a stand-alone Transport, I felt that although it lost the shootout, it did hold it's own against the 10 times more expensive MBL 1621A Transport.
I hope that helps you.
Rich |
Hi Audiogalore,
I'm glad I was able to help. You are exactly right!
With the Squeezebox used as the Front-End the sound was abysmal and with the Logitech Transporter leading the way as the Front-End the sound was phenomenal, even though both front-ends were hooked up to a top-notched DAC, during the shootout.
Rich |
Hi Audiogalore,
I'm not surprised he said that, he's probably a support tech answering the phone (I have no idea), however even engineers who are not audiophiles like yourself, don't understand the reasons why these differences occur. I know some very bright non-audiophile engineers, that don't understand why more expensive cables and interconnects sound better then cheaper ones, and some of them can't even hear the differences.
The Transporter was specifically designed to satisfy us audiophiles, according to the original company Slim Devices which was bought out by Logitech a few years ago.
If you go to the Logitech website take a look at the specifications of each.
The only thing that I could ascertain from the Transporter specs are as follows:
Word clock input for synchronization with an external clock
Linear-regulated power for all clock paths
Dedicated high-precision crystal oscillators (no PLL, no resampling)
Standard IEC-958 (S/PDIF) or AES/EBU encoding
Optical connector: TOSLINK 660nm
RCA connector: capacitor-coupled 500mVpp into 75 ohms
BNC connector: transformer-coupled, 500mVpp into 75 ohms
XLR connector: 4.7Vpp into 110 ohms
So, if Word Clock synchronization, lower jitter, larger linear regulated power supply, higher signal to noise ratio, a 110 ohm XLR digital output, a larger and heavier chassis, and the ability to upgrade the power cable, all doesn't make a difference according to Logitech, than I'm not sure why they are charging $1600 more for the ability to use a 24Bit/96khz DAC, which I don't even like. This is all tongue and cheek of course.
I've been an audiophile for over 25 years, and I am absolutely positive of my impressions, and I actually believe that you would bet on me instead of that Logitech Technician. The simple fact that you could appreciate the weaknesses of your squeezebox, tells me that you too will also enjoy a Transporter just like I do, especially through the 110 ohm digital output.
I have some really nice gear, there is no way that I would ever have thought that I would be using a Logitech Transporter as my Digital front-end source. I'm telling you..... Faaahgetaboutit...., it wasn't even close, the Transporter destroyed the Squeezebox.
I will also tell you that as more high-end companies start focusing on Digital Streamers, then I will probably upgrade to one of those products down the line. Right now its, Linn, Soolos, Logitech, Sonos and the PS audio which isn't even available yet.
Rich |
Audiogalore Quote: "I guess my dilemma is that I do not have balance inputs on my Melos 333 line pre-amp. and I know there will be some degradation taking balance out of the Transporter directly to my Power amp. I believe this month Absolute made mention of same."
Yeah, I'm still here!
You don't have a dilemma. I believe that the Absolute Sound Article that you are referring to was talking about using the Analog Outputs of the Transporter, (either balanced analog out or unbalanced analog out) which implies that you will be using the Internal DAC of the Transporter and therefore, if you were to go directly into a power amplifier, then you would be forced to use the digital volume of the Transporter which can trump bits and cause a loss of resolution.
From what I gathered from you, this is not what you will be doing. You will be using the 75ohm SPDIF Digital Outputs of the Transporter to your external Tri-Vista DAC, then to your Melos 333 Preamp using your analog RCA Cables. So, you will be able to put the digital volume all the way up on the Transporter (so not to lose any bits of resolution) then you will be using the Analog Volume Control on your Melos Preamp. You will not be losing anything except the difference between a 110 ohm digital cable (because your DAC doesn't support this) and a 75 ohm digital cable, as well as the difference between a fully balanced Preamp/Amp setup, but you don't have that now, so you won't lose anything.
I was using a 110 ohm AES/EBU Digital Balanced Out Cable (which is a single Digital Cable) from the Transporter to my external DAC, not a Balanced XLR Analog out. The digital cable that you will be using is a single 75 ohm Digital SPDIF Cable.
Does that make sense?
Rich
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