Okay Rich fair analysis, I am curious with the thought, when I spoke to a tier 2 Logitech technical rep. they mentioned the only difference in sound would be 96/24 domain. As a Electrical Engineer, I follow your process of elimination and trust your integrity as a end user and the real world with the associated in-out circuitry that you based your test on.
Again thank you for your support on this issue. |
That is just the point and thank you for your opinion, however I would appreciate some feed back and hear experiences and thoughts that would lead me to that direction. Like you rightfully said it could be a hassle trying to have Logitech to take back product. So that being said is the reason were it would be nice hearing some experience. |
Thank you Shazam for your feedback, I also heard that the transporters DAC sound was more analytical. I have a Tri-Vista 21 tube DAC that I like very much and find it very musical. I guess I was hoping to have both worlds using the Logitech also as a stand alone DAC with the digital input to my Mark Levinson 37 transport. Than it would be ideal and I could replace it with my present TRI-Vista 21.
The PSAudio PWD with the generous $1000.00 trade in offer seem great. However after some research on that device, I found that the features are great but the benefits less.
1) The bridge will not be wireless and for me that is very important.
Good Luck with the PWD when it arrives. |
Hi Rick:
Thank you for that detail reply, IMO I have audiophile grade power,interconnects and speaker cable as posted on audiogon.
I am a firm believer having a quality DAC pulls everything together. The most important part of the audio chain is the transducers, then the source than tweaking the balance of the system. I agree that the Red book CD at a handsome price does sound better. However I must admit the ease and comfort at endless hours enjoying a properly setup music server allows you more involvement.
I have recently also downloaded some HDTrack HI-RES 96/24 and found the sound very liquid with a quietness and more air between the nodes of the given listening musical piece, even in 48/24 through the SB3. I had considered the PSAudio PWD, previously mentioned, but after carefully thinking the process over, I really like my present setup and I think I am going to seek a transporter using my TRI-VISTA 21. |
Hi Guys:
I definitely do not feel hijacked as a matter of fact I thank Rick sharing his fact finding and comparisons of the two units. Whom better, the MSL 1611F DAC is top shelf Stereophile A rated piece.
I have a saying "garbage in garbage out" what I truly mean, is the sources used the SB and the transporter are exposed with the proper cabling and D/A converter. With a sub-standard DAC the garbage in theory does not show the total suspect and the comparison is not as widely noticeable.
Again thank you for your support on this issue Rick. I will now seek out a transporter to replace my SB3.
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Rich, I also take it that you were streaming 96/24 as your test when you had performed your comparison of the two units this morning. |
Rich you are absolutely right not because I am a Engineer certifies me an expert on the sound of ones and zeros. As matter of fact trial and error is the best test. Example and proof is your total demonstration that we all testified today and that alone is money to the bank.
I guess my dilemma is that I do not have balance inputs on my Melos 333 line pre-amp. and I know there will be some degradation taking balance out of the Transporter directly to my Power amp. I believe this month Absolute made mention of same.
We all know as we speak there are changes being made to the next generation digital and that eventually Red book CD as we know it will die. At present after numerous research on digital front end the transporter is the closest to getting it right. |
Thank you for the correction, I some how lost track of myself and started to thinking about the internal DAC and got ahead of myself. I really meant to to say the digital output of the transporter. Rich I have been doing this wacy hobby too long approx. 35 year it known as a "senior moment". You are correct the downside of the TRI-VISTA it as minimum inputs/outputs, oh well that is the Brits for you! |
I have been fact finding all inputs from this thread and have purchased a transporter to replace my Squeeze box 3 as my music server source.
Okay, I have a few things to share regarding external DACs. I have tried now 3 DACs in my present setup. The Tri-Vista 21, Bel Canto DAC 3 and the Benchmark DAC 1.
The Tri- Vista 21 is the most Dynamic with the biggest sound stage.
The Bel-Canto separation and placement of the music was the most accurate.
The benchmark was analytical and thin.
The Transporter stand alone as a DAC was quite impressive and low noise the sound signature was not as warm as the Tri-Vista 21 tube DAC, but certainly a even match to the Bel Canto and certainly out performed the Benchmark.
With the proper setup Transporter and 100% fixed digital volume in order not to lose any bit resolution, a neutral to warm interconnect cables and a analog pre-amp, a pre-amp with some tubes more preferred. I found the analog output stage of the transporter pretty darn close that rivals any other sweet spot audiophile critical listening source.
Enjoy music!
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Sbank: I would not sell your Tri -vista 21 at a lost to gain the same from the Transporter.
The Tri-Vista 21 tube DAC with my ears sounds more dynamic and with a bigger sound stage than that of the transporter properly setup. That being said, there is more than merely trying to squeeze a few drops out of the issue.
For one with the Transporter you will gain a music library at your finger tips along with a vast amount of internet Radio. Plus with Hi-Res music the transporter supporting 96/24 will differently sound better than any Red book CD no matter the investment cost hands down.
On the issue about modifying the Transporter with Mod Wright, that will cost more than what you could get for your Tri- Vista 21 listed on the open market. The Tri-Vista 21 being tube and heavily designed with a digital stage and left/right analog staged power-supplies is why the thing weighs 40 lbs. and built like a tank. With a quality neutral sounding digital cable will give better return overall than to modify the transporter.
Hope this helps clarifies some of the thoughts and we all should network our experiences, as we gain more from the real world.
Cheers! |
Hi Spencer:
I had the same setup. SB 3 with a upgraded power supply, Digital output to a Tri-Vista 21 as one digital source and it was quite good in critical listening setup in my system.
I have been using now for 2-weeks a transporter and find the comparison the same.
The transporter does native 96/24 and the SB-3 upto 48/24 and again out through the Tri-Vista 21 that will upsample to 24/96 I find listening to downloaded Hi-Res no difference between the two source.
I consider headphone listening the most accurate and detail listening experience and really testing sound reproduction.
Testing results I used a AKG K1000 which is considered the best headphone on "planet earth", connected to one of the best sounding Amp, a Cary SEI with 300B Western tubes.
IMO keep your SB 3 as your musical server source. The transporter is a great device if you need to have a DAC and in your case your Tri-Vista 21 tube DAC is better than the transporter internal DAC.
Enjoy,
Harold
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Hi Spencer:
You are welcome, I think it is only fair that true testing of the components are measured with our experience and the best accuracy that we have available to us and then share results and fact finding among each other like yourself.
This really put us closer to the real world and help us all understand the determination and madness we audiophile geeks have for this passionate hobby.
One thing for sure we spend allot of time and money consequently trying to extract and squeeze for the reproduction of sound as intended during recording without and making it to clinical and believe you me that will certainly be tackled in a near thread to come... hint, "PWD"!
I have been doing this over 30 years and still prefer my Vinyl listening, but must say Digital has come along way, and find myself being able to listen longer with less fatigue.
Finally I must say from this thread it has shown the values and worth of the Transporter.
I personally must say thank you to Rich sharing his own experience of the Transporter.
It is an excellent investment for all the things it does with so many features and true benefits.
It is really hard to find a single component that lends so much. With the Squeeze Center interface and occasional firmware update has certainly, outside of vinyl turned my listening experience to another level, especially with 96/24 hi-res downloads.
Enjoy Music!
Harold |
Hi Luis:
In regards to the external DAC, reading your comment it seems to me that you are taking things in the right steps to the process of elimination.
Isolation and tweaking are the core and fundamental to achieve and maximize proper sound imaging.
I quote you saying that the Mod Wright is probably worthwhile. I feel it is going to definitely change your present sound signature.
The sound would become more defined with more of a warm sound and help eliminate that clinical dry digital presentation.
IMHO, why not consider a digital out external Tube DAC, such as the Tri-Vista 21 which also allow you the flexibility to switch back and forth with digital out and using the internal Transporter DAC.
This will also give an edge as to the different presentation and you can probably get one for more than half the price of a Mod.
I have this setup in my system and it sounds great, with allot of flexibility for upgrade and not sterile to just one sound.
Enjoy Music!
Harold |
Hi Ophitoxaemia:
The Linn Genki was a decent sounding $ 2000.00 CD player 10 years ago and is still considered as a great player.
The Transporter has a Wang Jung re clocked processor that contributed to the lower floor noise in the DAC circuitry which helps eliminate the jitter and clock error.
That is why Dan Wright also consider the DAC as one of the best and only tackles the Analog stage for improvement.
The present voltage regulator and analog stage op amp cascade circuit is modified by Mod Wright, Dan replaces this section of the solid state analog stage, by adding the rectifier and driver analog stage tube circuit along with a beef up P/S to deliver that dynamic and warm sound which in return removes that clinical dry sound from the stock unit.
Some people might call it tube coloration.
The analog stage of the stock Transporter can be conquered by using a quality warm interconnect pair to a analog pre-amp and fixing the Transporter volume 100% and using the analog volume pot of the pre-amp tube preferred, which will take the sound to a more warm and less clinical.
Your Transporter downloading HDTrack 96/24 Hi-Res will outperform the best of the best red book CD unit.
Enjoy Music!
Harold
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