I love Steve Jordan. Great feel and groove. I would say there is no greatest. They all contributed something. Neil Pearl is a master technically but not so much gifted with feel. If I was forced to choose then my top pick would be John Bonham. Anyone who plays rock will have been influenced by him and most drummers study him. Chad Smith is amazing too - just keeps a tight groove with great hi-hat work and solid kick. Could be the perfect rock drummer as he is so solid. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Am5_7oM_fFk |
Oh yeah Jazz and Blues (Rock/folk) require a different mindset. It is hard to switch from Snare and Bass (Blues back beat) to Ride and Hi-hat (jazz). Jazz is all about swing and comping. They both however focus on the One.
Reggae is the mind bender - the one-drop is quite off putting....
And Latin/Cuban clave beats with a clave on the left foot like Horacio Hernandez - that takes years of practice. |
Check out this version of Walking on the Moon done in jazz swing rather than one drop reggae! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zd3c1CPr5ScRhythm is everything! A great vocalist without rhythm is not a musician. Frank Sinatra didn’t have such a great voice but he understood rhythm and phrasing as well as any of the best drummers. Timing is EVERYTHING! Sting may be unpleasant and arrogant but he sure has oodles of talent! |
@lowrider57
+1 Led Zepelin really grooved because Page is a fantastic rhythm guitarist and the drumming accented the guitar. However Bonham often alternates between bass and rhythm guitar as you go from verse to chorus and this is really innovative. Most drummers will stick to bass or rhythm guitar and lay down a continuous groove with the odd fill thrown in but NOT alternate (often radically) between both. This is what makes LZ so interesting and refreshing whereas as most rock/pop/blues gets repetive after 2 minutes. Chad Smith applies this technique too.
Ramble On is a simple but good example.
As for fills, Bonham had tremendous swing and triplet feel - he often leaves you in suspense on a fill that starts off in 1/8 note groove and then ends with a gap of 2/24 followed by an accent on a "let" and finally in a flourish of 1/24 note triplets and then goes perfectly back on the one. His drumming feels like it is always just about to fall apart - lurching here and there but then he nails the One and you are back in the groove.
Was he a show off. For sure. Apart from John Paul Jones LZ were all extravagant show offs and it was fun and enormously entertaining and still is to this day!
RHCP are the same - enormously talented over the top entertainers. Chad Smith hits so damn hard but still grooves as good as any New Orleans cat!
Perhaps a lot more music would be like his if lead guitarists weren't so controlling of drummers and demanding they take a back seat!!!!!
Kudos to Page for allowing Bonham to simply go for it!
Kudos to RHCP for allowing Chad to have a significant role in their sound. |
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Wow, Hiromi is like Eddie Van Halen style but on the piano! What incredible talent. I would tend to classify this outside of Rock Drumming genre as is that insane demo from the genius Dave Weckl.
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I love this guy. Distinctive style. Rock steady and plays with such force but totally relaxed and lightening quick. This video shows he is extremely talented. Extremely precise playing. Everything is very clean. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VeduwZtiTPk |
Great suggestions from all. Interesting to compare styles.
Mitch and Jimi are really just jamming. Using typical call and response type comping.
Bonham and Jimmy often worked together very carefully to make something really artistic and complementary. (Of course they often did Call and Response too with Plant leading as this is a key aspect of Blues - Black Dog being a great example)
Both are amazing drummers.
I do think the greatest Rock Drummers work carefully with the other musicians to make the song greater than just a sum of individual talent. Creating a tightly knit piece that locks together.
I don’t really enjoy a lot of modern jazz because of the individual jamming (comping). However I do enjoy traditional big band stuff. I believe it is actually harder to carefully craft a simple piece like Queen often did - where everything fits tightly together.
Jamming is often a display of great individual talent but it is not planned and carefully constructed where the whole combination is greater than the individual talent... |
There are chops.
There is musicality (contribution to the song)
There is time keeping.
Chad Smith has all three. Porcaro, Keltner, Bonham and many greats had all three. Ringo had two but he was exceptionally good at two. Most drummers are at most exceptional at two out of three. It is rare to have all three in balance and even rarer to be exceptional at all three.
The drummers that get the gig tend to be good at musicality and time keeping - chops is not in high demand. Ringo is proof that musicality and time keeping is more important than chops! Ringo doesn’t seem to even count to get things right he just listens and learns - an intuitive thing - he plays by feel and what he did worked fir the Beatles. Steve Ferrone is another great player but he will count carefully and can read music and can adapt his style. Session musicians often are skilled at adapting their style of playing which is altogether a whole other level of musicality!!!
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+1 Stewart Copeland often plays on top or ahead of the beat and has a tendency to push the tempo. He gives an urgency and energy to his playing that few drummers convey. Good skill at the one drop as well as jazz (Murder by Numbers)!
The Police Certifiable concert is one of the most enjoyable demonstrations of percussion - no silly drum solo - just great playing that compliments and elevates the songs to whole other level. As enjoyable as Neil Peart on Xanadu live on the Exit Stage Left DVD!
Sting is super talented but rather BORING without Stewart.
Stewart was the true creative somewhat crazy talent behind The Police and I don’t think Sting’s great song writing would have been recognized if not for Stewart’s inventive playing. |
@jafant
+1 Stan Lynch
Very tasty drumming with a great groove. As a supporting vocalist he was fantastic too. It took TWO musicians to replace him - Steve Ferrone and Scott Thurston - both tremendously talented musicians themselves. |
I saw Jason Bonham recently and he does a really great job of replicating the feel of his father while also having his own style (slightly more modern feel being more on the beat). I agree that the feel of John Bonham is hard to replicate - he really does deliberately hit late (behind the beat) quite often and the feeling is like it is about to fall apart but always catching up -this gives the music a lot of movement - and, of course, the “1” is always where it is supposed to be (he knew what he was doing). https://youtu.be/jz0XbcaO4xk |
Check this is out Changing or adding movement to a simple rock 1/8 note pattern to the odd triplet feel (by playing on the “e” of four instead of the “&”) https://youtu.be/vl9188EPdLISimple but really effective! Often the genius things are simple but it takes a genius to know when it will work effectively! |
I love it! “drummers are musicians too” |
The documentary Beware of Mr Baker is fun. What an eccentric ornery fellow. He was certainly original - played rudiments much of the time whether it fitted or not. Very interesting sound. Don’t know of another drummer that so effectively used rudiments around the kit to create his unique layered sound.
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How do you know if the drum set platform is level? If the drummer drools evenly out of each side of his mouth! Check out this drool worthy video of a drummin legend https://youtu.be/DzAt3Ozkd2AAt at the end of the video, you can see Tom Petty had vintage Tannoy Red 15 monitors stacked up high among all his guitar amps and cabs! |
Since we talk about styles and overplaying, I want to add that IMHO Jim Karstein is a most exceptional “play for the song” drummer. Hat tip to James Cruce also.
Just listen to JJ Cale or Clapton. |
@audiozen
Bonham learned his bass drum punctuation and triplet style from listening to Carmen Appice of Vanila Fudge. He managed to emulate essential aspects of what Carmen did with two feet on the double bass drum with just one foot and a single kick drum. Plenty of folks since then have developed these skills but at the time it was unusual to see such an accomplished rock drummer (jazz drummers were far better than rock drummers back then and today it is the heavy metal drummers with insane foot skills)
You were very very lucky to catch them so early on... you saw history in the making ...but the year would have been 1968 not 1969. I believe Carmen was very supportive of Bonham and helped get Led Zeppelin as one of the opening acts, touring together. After the tour (done with rented gear), Bonham’s own Ludwig endorsement and kit was obtained with Carmen’s assistance. He initially had a double bass drum kit identical to Carmen but Page said it was just too much and that he “couldn’t hear himself think”. |
@audiozen
Yes concert tickets are much more these days and so is everything else like a cup of coffee .....but there really is no inflation at all. .....just ask the Federal Reserve and the wonks there that claim to be worried about too little inflation...after printing gazillions of fiat money.
There is going to be one almighty headache, possibly even free market OD and death after this current cheap money asset and stock market and everything party (bubble)... |
Stewart Copeland Sting wrote great melodies and lyrics and Andy was a brilliant rhythm and lead guitarist but Copeland is what actually made the Police really interesting vs everything else at the time. I remember hearing Message in a Bottle for the first time and being immediately mesmerized by the drums. This is a rare thing to experience in music. Roxanne is a pop hit that is really a Tango! Crazy ideas that somehow worked. Image if Roxanne had been the Bossa Nova that Sting originally envisioned. A great innovator https://youtu.be/pWfP3GHMgqc |
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