I spoke with Gilmore extensively at HE2003 (I think we talked a combined 6 hours or so). He told me about these speakers, and I sort of just noddeb my head politely, heh heh.
Anyway, it is cool that these speakers have come to fruition. Gilmore made them sound UNREAL. 92db efficiency and able to play 120db or so... Planer speakers just do not do this sorta thing normally...
I am looking forward to hearing these speakers.
KF |
Ok folks, I HAVE FINALLY heard these speakers in person.
I was invited over to Mark Gilmore's house when I went to visit relatives.
I was able to hear both the Model 2 and 3 speakers. We listened to the Model 3 speakers extensively because the Model 2 speakers were a bit too big for the room we were listening in.
Anyway... Let's forget about all the white paper BS specifications on these speakers for a moment. White paper has never told me anything about how something sounds. I have to hear a piece of gear before I can make a judgement on the sound.
And how do I think they sound???
On axis these speakers are possibly the finest speakers I have ever heard. What do these speakers do that makes them this good?
- They are amazingly coherent from top to bottom. I could NOT hear their crossover point.
- They are the most dynamic planer speaker I have ever heard. And most box speakers do not even come close to competing dynamically as well.
- The bottom end of these speakers is mind blowing. They go so deep with minimal distortion.
- This speaker has probably the least amount of distortion that I have EVER heard from ANY speaker. Listening to these speakers is like listening to the finest headphones EVER made but on a huge scale.
- This minimal distortion enables detail to just ooze from this speaker. These speakers are like windows to the music you are listening to.
- These speakers are perhaps the fastest speakers I have ever heard. Their speed from top to bottom is insanely good.
Is there anything negative I can say about these speakers?
- These speakers are designed to be listened to from a designated listening position (on axis). If you are NOT on axis BUT you are still ear level with the drivers of the speakers, the sound they project is GOOD but not great. And if your ear is above the drivers of the speaker, the sound these speakers project declies quite quickly. Thus, if you want to hear these speakers in all of their glory, you must listen from an on axis optimal listening position.
This is the only quibble I have with these speakers.
Anyway, I planned on only being at Gilmore's house for two hours or so, and I ended up staying around seven hours. We ended up spinning a ton of vinyl (YEE HA!!!!! and only a little digital) I would have stayed as long as I could, but I had to pick my mother up at the airport.
I STRONGLY RECOMMEND EVERYONE GOING TO CES DROP BY AND HEAR THESE GILMORE SPEAKERS IN ACTION. IF YOU CAN AFFORD THEM (YEP, THEY NOT BE CHEAP), THESE SPEAKERS COULD BE THE LAST SPEAKERS YOU BUY FOR A LONG TIME. I kid you not... These are my favorite non box speakers by a WIDE MARGIN. THree years ago I sold my Maggies because I could NOT get dynamic sound like this from them... My favorite box speaker is the Vandersteen 5A speakers. For me to determine which I like better, I will need to hear them back to back in a reference system. Maybe one day....
Email me if you have any questions.
KF |
Zaikesman, my name is Keith not Kevin (Kevin is my brother in law, heh heh).
Putting the system aside I heard the Gilmore Speakers in, I can say with confidence that I have NEVER heard any speakers sound like the Gilmore speakers driven by ANY electronics.
I have never heard any system sound that I have been more impressed with (on axis) than the system at Gilmore's house. His electronics are very, very good; however, they are not what I would call insanely priced statement pieces. The system was composed of some speaker cables of his own design, two 60wpc Atmasphere OTL monoblocks that were an older Atmasphere chassis, XLR IC that is Gilmore's design, an Atmasphere preamplifier. The front ends we were using was a turntable that I was not familiar with, but it had a Van Den Hul Frog cartridge which I am familiar with. The digital we were using is a product I am working on developing. So far it competes with digital upwards of $20k+ (my target retail price is $3k or so, it will be able to function as a transport, DAC, and preamplifier). I like it better than my reference digital that I have used in the past. I do have a lot of experience with Atmasphere amps (one of my best local audio friends has a pair).
Anyway electronics aside, the Gilmore speakers can be looked at actually as a value. How can they be a value at $12.5k or so retail?
- You do not need an extremely powerful amp to drive them. This can save you a lot of money on an amp.
- No subwoofer needed. This can save you some bucks.
- No aftermarket stands required to get amazing sound. Many speakers require some sort of aftermarket stand to get acceptable performance.
- Shipping price on these speakers should not be too bad. They sure cost less to ship than say a pair of VR-7 speakers.
All of the above taken into account could cut the price of these speakers by about $1000 to upwards of $10k+ depending on any number of variables.
I'll give you an example. Take the Maggie 3.6's. Their base price is around $4k. Add a nice subwoofer for $2k. Add some nice stands for $300 or so. Sink $4k more (than you would spend on an amp for the Gilmore speakers) into nice powerful 600wpc solid state monoblock amps. Total price for this setup: $10.3k. Yeah, this is still about $2k less expensive than Gilmore's Model 3; HOWEVER, you are still going to get sound that only approaches the Gilmore speakers stock. Frankly, IMHO there would be no comparison. I had Maggies for many years, and they sound undynamic and slow compared to the Gilmore speakers. And I do not care what gear you have the Maggies hooked up to. I have heard them driven by $200k reference systems that were DESIGNED for the sole purpose of getting every ouce of performance from them. Still there is not a lot of comparison between that sound and the sound I experienced at Gilmore's house. One more thing... Integrating any sub seemlessly with the Maggie 3.6's is next to impossible. It can be done well... but seemelessly: no way in heck. Even totally rewiring your Maggies and getting a nice external active crossover will not put you in the realm of the Gilmore speakers.
Ok I am starting to sound like an infomercial.
My point is that the first time I heard about these Gilmore speakers, I thought yadda yadda yadda another speaker coming down the pike whose hype is TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE.
After hearing thse speakers in person, I can safely say their really is not much hype. Fact: yes; hype: nope.
If you like listening on axis, these speakers will probably make your jaw drop. If you like listening in other positions (off axis vertical and/or horizontal), you should audition these speakers first because I think their performance falls off quite a bit off axis. This though is not abnormal thing with many speakers. That is the worst thing I can say about these Gimore speakers.
KF |
Guys,
I am gonna say straight that I am VERY ill.
I got back from CES last night, and I may be rambling a bit.
I hung around the Gilmore rooms a lot. Right off the bat, I would say they had the room with the Model 3 speakers with the M-1 amps sounding best. ESPECIALLY when they raised the Model 3 speakers up 1'. To listen to those speakers properly, you have to be at a lower listening position than the stock chairs that came with the room, OR rasier the speakers up a bit (which they did on Sunday).
The speakers in the Model 2 room sounded good, but not as good as the model 3 room (see above). I have some theories why they did not sound quite as good (mainly room interactions, and a bit of placement). However, when Abraham came and played his basses... OMG!!! The trip was worth that 10 minute mini concert. I have NEVER heard bass amplified and played back that well. And I was off axis listening. The man is a God among basists, and I was blown away. When he flipped to his 5 string bass (I think it had 5 strings), all I can tell you is that even off axis, I'd SWEAR that the sound of his bass seemingly sounded UNAMPLIFIED and coming directly from his bass.
You gotta listen to these speakers on axis to really hear what they can do.
No other speaker at CES or The Show even began to exite me as much as these Gilmore speakers.
Well must go see a doctor... am very ill.
KF |
Well, folks I am back... (after a four day hospital stay).
All I can say is that I went to the best hospital in the region... And if this was the best in the area, I REALLY feel sorry for folks who have the misfortune of going to the other hospitals.
I wish I could say I were better, but the condition I was diagnosed with is a life long sort of thing...
As sick as I was in Vegas at CES, I still had quite a good time.
KF |
Before judging these speakers off of aesthetics or rumors or innuendo, you really need to hear them.
Not only hear them, but spend a little time with them. I told a few people to listen to this speaker at CES. Unfortunately, a several of them walked into the room, may have listened for 5-10 minutes of the material playing, then walked out. They ended up not having the greatest impression of these speakers. I know listening conditions at shows are generally not optimal; unfortunateley many people at shows (and sometimes I fall into this trap) do not give eqipment a fair chance to show how it can perform.
Thus, if you really want to judge these speakers, the Gilmore's will be available at home showrooms for demonstrations in the near future. Home showrooms are almost invaribly better than Show conditions.
I have heard the Gimore speakers (model 2 and 3) in several differently configured systems. And after every time I hear them, it pains me to go back and listen to my home reference system. The Gilmore speakers are so much better than my Vienna Accoustic Mahler speakers, it is not even funny. I am talking not even the same sport much less league.
The price tag of the Gilmore speakers I will admit is pretty hefty. Not everyone can afford to plop down $14k-$20k on speakers. However, even at these price points, I think the Gilmore speakers are the best I have ever heard (by a pretty good margin).
The other way one could look at justifying this speaker price is to look long term. If you buy speakers for say $10k either new or used AND you turn those over (sell those) speakers every two years your depretiation will be somwhere around 3k-7k every time you sell. If bought used it will probably lean towards the $3k value. If bought new it will probably be closer to $7k. Let's take an average of $5k or $2.5k a year you effectively pay to have speakers. Going this rout, in less than 6 years you have spent the money in depretiation that could have bought you some Gimore Model 3 speakers (around $15k). And in those 6 years, you have listened to speakers that are vastly inferior to the Gilmores. No $10k speaker touches the Gilmore's IMHO. And take into effect, I think the Gilmore speakers can easilly last me 10 years. Maybe at 10 years, there will be something better... Maybe another Gilmore speaker. After 10 years I will have spent $19.5k on the Gilmore speaker. And I would still have a speaker that shold be easilly worth $7k+ on the used market. Thus I would have spent about $12.5k for 10 years of listening bliss (or 1.25k a year). If I changed $10k speakers every two years for 10 years I'd have sunk about $25k into speakers during that time, and I would have ended up with a speaker that is worth for $3k-$5k (call it $4k). Thus, I would have sunk about $21k into listening to a different $10k speaker every 2 years. Thus, the cost of Gilmore model 2 ownership over 10 years is about 50% of what it costs to own a different $10k speaker every 2 years.
Anyway my main points are:
1 - Please give the Gilmore speakers a chance if you are interested in hearing a speaker which IMHO is simply AMAZING.
2 - If interested, schedule an appointment with a home demonstrator, and you will not be disappointed. Heck, even if you do not necessarilly want to BUY the speakers now or even in the near future, it would be good for more people to hear these speakers. (Sometimes I think I am the only one that hears something as GREAT or AMAZING sonically; however, invaribly I am vindicated by others who hear as I do).
3 - Sometimes you have to pay a bit more up front for quality. However, if you keep the item of quality for an extended period of time (because it is much superior to it's peers), you will find that the actual cost of the quality item is less than you think (on an annual basis).
4 - If my above numbers do not fit for your situation, run the numbers for your speaker habbits. Maybe you only turn over speakers every 3 years? Maybe you turn speakers over ever year? Run the numbers and BE HONEST with yourself on how much you spend and how much speakers depreciate (big speakers tend to have the worst depretiation short of high end digital). The typical audiophile does not do long term number's analysis IMHO because the numbers can be just too depressing. I know I have lost untold thousands and thousands and even tens of thousands of dollars on audio experimentation. If I had gotten what I really loved with the first purchase (even at full retail price), I'd be far ahead (financially) of what I am today.
KF
|
Truthfully folks, I have been unemployed for nearly a year now, and the job market in my field is so bad (wireless telecommunications) that I am probably going to get into the audio industry as a manufacturer and as a dealer to earn an income. I will oficially leave reviewing before I sell my first product. Nothing is set in stone yet.
My advice about the Gilmore speakers really goes for just about ANYTHING. I have always belived that buying items that will last a long time (and spending a bit more $$$) is the best policy. A person just needs to do a cost of ownership analysis. Most people do not have this foresight. Heck, I have fallen into the trap to impulse and bad decisions many times in the past.
In the realm of audio, I think people should try to keep their minds and ears open. Judging a product solely based on gossip and/or reviews and/or a brief listen in showroom conditions is jumping to conclusions. Gossip should never be trusted. Reviews may be a little better than gossip; however, I have been a professional review, I know and have met many professional reviewers, and frankly, I do not trust most of them further than my 5' 3" wife could throw any of them. Take reviews with a grain of salt (even mine, heh heh). Show conditions suck in general. I have heard very few showrooms that I liked better than my home system setup. After I get back from a show, I tend to listen to my system and develop a newly re-found appreciation for it.
I will readily admit that I am a friend of Mark Gilmore. This does not mean I am biased towards him or his products. I have several friends that are audio reviewers that I personally think have no ear for music and could not match a system if their life depended on it. Mark Gilmore on the other hand, really does know his stuff. Gilmore speakers were not designed in a garage by an audio tweaker who tweaked an existing product (say Carver's speaker) until it sounded right/much better. Gilmore designed and tested the speakers using Computer Aided Design and Computer aided Manufacturing technology. Thus, the speakers were first designed and built virtually with computer software using hard math and science. The math said these speakers worked before they even had a prototype built.
Gilmore has been working on these speakers for a long, long time (more like 15 years than 15 months). I have heard a lot of speaker systems. Most I do not particularly care for. I would honestly take a pair of the Gilmore speakers (even the small model 3) over any speakers I have heard EVER. You just have to hear them in a home audio system to appreciate them to the fullest.
Albert Porter - It is my understanding that your problem with the Gilmore speaker is one of aesthetics. I can understand this. As the old saying goes: There is no accounting for taste. The look of the Gilmore's does not phase me in the least. My primary concern is the sound quality of a component. Aesthetics are nice... but in the end, I want the best sound possible. I do think that the color of the Gilmore speakers really does matter a lot depending on the color scheme of your listening room. I do like some of the upgraded solid colors a lot (the darker the better).
Zaikesman - I do like the Mahlers. But as good as my system sounds with the Mahlers (my Mahlers may be some of the best sounding ones in the US), I think the Gilmore speakers are leaps and bounds better.
Must run.
KF
|
|
