You say you don't want to introduce specific preamps into this equation. I find that frustrating since that can make all the difference in the world as to how this test turns out.
You bias your test in the beginning by stating that if you don't recognize the benfits of running direct you must have one whizbang of a pre amp.
I have done comparisons with customers who were using Tenors without a pre, Audio Aero straight into their amps and passive devices using nothing more than naked Vishay resistors on their amps. All who have heard a benefit when switching to transformer coupled pre. I have attached one such thread from a die hard passive fan.
It seems to me your test is not real world because your trying to make a case that direct is better when comparing it to your solid state pre-amp or some one's pre which may or may not be that great of a pre. In that case a dircet feed is going to sound better. I have always agreed with that. My argument is that you can't make a generalization of which is better based on this kind of a test.
The impedance mismatch alone of the driving device and amp is reason enough for active gain stage. Comparing to a capacitor coupled preamp is still a compromise.
I have owned many!!!!!! players with direct outputs, passive devices including the Placette, First Sound (when he made them) EVS, Reference line etc. So I have had much experience with these devices. I know I have been down this path before. I have issued challenges regarding this. So far every person who has taken me up on the challenge has gotten away from their passive or direct devices.
"The system is so much more visceral with the M-5. Everything got better. I don't know how anyone could think running the AA capitole atright to the tenor would be better than this"
Why do the Audio Note preamps sound so much better
I took Joe over at JC Audio up on the offer of a shoot out. Actually it was the second time. About nine months ago I went over and had a shoot out between my EVS Nude Attenuators and the Kora triode preamp. I have to give Joe credit he agreed if you could live with the inconvenience and lack of flexibility that the EVS attenuators sounded as good.
But I made a bad mistake today. I went over and did the same shoot out with the Audio Note M5. I should have never done this. The M5 made the attenuators sound dry and lifeless. The M5 sounded prettier with much more top in extension without ever sounding bright. It was more transparent and fuller bodied at the same time. And the layering and the soundstageing was just beautiful. This is disturbing to me for I have been a big proponent of passive, especially the attenuators since you even eliminate a set of interconnects and a power cord. Why does this line stage sound so much better.
[email protected]
08-02-02
08-15-02: [email protected]
The Audio Note, EAR (E11??), the big Jadis and Atma-Sphere (P-2) preamps are the only high-end audio transformer-coupled units out there to my knowledge.
Transformer-coupling is common in professional tube gear, particularly from the 50s and 60s. This is because the equipment had to match to the 600 ohm balanced line standard (which is still very much around today). Tubes coupled by output coupling capacitors would never be able to play any bass driving a 600 ohm load!
We built the P-2 (discontinued when it was replaced by the MP-3) so it could drive the 600 ohm standard as well. The nice thing about the 600 ohm standard is that it ameleorates the role that interconnect cables play in the sound of the system, which is why the standard has been used for the last 5 decades by the professional recording and broadcast arts. Its always been a puzzle to my why audiophiles are so slow to embrace the same standards, despite having the same concern about cable qualities. This has spawned the high-end audio multi-million dollar/year cable industry.
We're an OTL manufacturer, but we've been a major supporter of balanced line technology for the last 14 years (mostly due to prolonged exposure to the recording studio); our preamps support the standard using direct-coupled ouptuts, which is the only other way to do it as capacitors won't work (since no-one would take a tube preamp with an electrolytic output coupling cap seriously...). IMO, its a shame that more manufacturer's aren't wise to what's happening here (sorry for the hype blast).
[email protected]
You bias your test in the beginning by stating that if you don't recognize the benfits of running direct you must have one whizbang of a pre amp.
I have done comparisons with customers who were using Tenors without a pre, Audio Aero straight into their amps and passive devices using nothing more than naked Vishay resistors on their amps. All who have heard a benefit when switching to transformer coupled pre. I have attached one such thread from a die hard passive fan.
It seems to me your test is not real world because your trying to make a case that direct is better when comparing it to your solid state pre-amp or some one's pre which may or may not be that great of a pre. In that case a dircet feed is going to sound better. I have always agreed with that. My argument is that you can't make a generalization of which is better based on this kind of a test.
The impedance mismatch alone of the driving device and amp is reason enough for active gain stage. Comparing to a capacitor coupled preamp is still a compromise.
I have owned many!!!!!! players with direct outputs, passive devices including the Placette, First Sound (when he made them) EVS, Reference line etc. So I have had much experience with these devices. I know I have been down this path before. I have issued challenges regarding this. So far every person who has taken me up on the challenge has gotten away from their passive or direct devices.
"The system is so much more visceral with the M-5. Everything got better. I don't know how anyone could think running the AA capitole atright to the tenor would be better than this"
Why do the Audio Note preamps sound so much better
I took Joe over at JC Audio up on the offer of a shoot out. Actually it was the second time. About nine months ago I went over and had a shoot out between my EVS Nude Attenuators and the Kora triode preamp. I have to give Joe credit he agreed if you could live with the inconvenience and lack of flexibility that the EVS attenuators sounded as good.
But I made a bad mistake today. I went over and did the same shoot out with the Audio Note M5. I should have never done this. The M5 made the attenuators sound dry and lifeless. The M5 sounded prettier with much more top in extension without ever sounding bright. It was more transparent and fuller bodied at the same time. And the layering and the soundstageing was just beautiful. This is disturbing to me for I have been a big proponent of passive, especially the attenuators since you even eliminate a set of interconnects and a power cord. Why does this line stage sound so much better.
[email protected]
08-02-02
08-15-02: [email protected]
The Audio Note, EAR (E11??), the big Jadis and Atma-Sphere (P-2) preamps are the only high-end audio transformer-coupled units out there to my knowledge.
Transformer-coupling is common in professional tube gear, particularly from the 50s and 60s. This is because the equipment had to match to the 600 ohm balanced line standard (which is still very much around today). Tubes coupled by output coupling capacitors would never be able to play any bass driving a 600 ohm load!
We built the P-2 (discontinued when it was replaced by the MP-3) so it could drive the 600 ohm standard as well. The nice thing about the 600 ohm standard is that it ameleorates the role that interconnect cables play in the sound of the system, which is why the standard has been used for the last 5 decades by the professional recording and broadcast arts. Its always been a puzzle to my why audiophiles are so slow to embrace the same standards, despite having the same concern about cable qualities. This has spawned the high-end audio multi-million dollar/year cable industry.
We're an OTL manufacturer, but we've been a major supporter of balanced line technology for the last 14 years (mostly due to prolonged exposure to the recording studio); our preamps support the standard using direct-coupled ouptuts, which is the only other way to do it as capacitors won't work (since no-one would take a tube preamp with an electrolytic output coupling cap seriously...). IMO, its a shame that more manufacturer's aren't wise to what's happening here (sorry for the hype blast).
[email protected]