Esoteric DV-50: Any cdp's Significantly better?


Is there are anyone out there who has compared the Esoteric DV-50 to a number of dedicated red book only players (or other universal's) and found one that is SIGNIFICANTLY better?

I stress significantly because in my humble opinion the redbook playback (if comparison unit is just a cd cd player only )must be significantly better to justify losing DVD-A, SACD and DVD-Video capability.

I keep hearing there are better one box solutions and being a die hard 2 channel fan I would sell my DV-50 if I found a player in the same price range that sounds significantly better. But every time I do an AB comparision to other well respected units the DV-50 has slayed each and every one.

So far, it has eaten the lunch of the Classe CDP-10, Ayre CX-7, Linn Ikemi, Cairn Fog Vers. 2, Cary 306/300, Arcam DV 27A and CD 33T, Myryad CD 600, etc. It even betters a Sony SCD 777ES/MF Tri-Vista 21 transport/dac combo that I previously owned. I'm only comparing the DV-50 to single box cd or universal players, but I just wanted to mention the Sony/MF combo. I'm sure there are some dac/transport combo's that will handily beat the DV 50.

Some may say that the DV 50 should beat all the above because the of price point ($5,500 vs. average price of $3,000 for the above players). But I disagree since conventional wisdom says that stand alone players (especially with the pedigree of those mentioned above) should produce better redbook than a universal player trying to be a jack of all trades. Only the DV 27A does video plus audio. By the way, I was very impressed with the 27A as just a cd player. Of all the above I would say the Ayre was the best.

Next on my list is the Electrocompaniet EMC 1UP and the Resolution Audio Opus 21. However, I must tell you I am really impressed with the DV 50 and all the great reviews are absolutely true. I've noticed that many people who are using it or comparing to other players are using the RCA analog outs instead of the balanced outs. There is a significant improvement in sound if you use the balanced outs and I'm only interested in hearing comments from people who have compared it against other players using the balanced outs on the DV-50.

My system components are as follows:

B&W N803's speakers & HTM-1 center
Cary Cinema 5 (5 x 200) amp
Anthem D1 Statement pre/pro
Esoteric DV 50
Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun speaker wire
Nirvana SX balanced interconnects from DV-50 to Anthem
Acoustic Zen Matrix reference II interconnects from D1 to Cary
No after market power cords or isolation equipment

My system sounds great! Those who comment please make sure to specify what specific improvements you heard over the DV 50 and what cdp were you comparing it against.

AVGURU
avguru

Showing 13 responses by springbok10

I have used the DV-50 as a CDP for about 8 months and it has been very satisfying - very good on red book, excellent on SACD. As is the case in high-end audio, everything is relative. But I couldn't resist trying the EMM DCC2, with the DV-50 as a transport. The soundstaging, imaging and detail leapt a whole order of magnitude. particularly transparency and resolution. Cant wait to hear if the CDSD, if EMM ever makes them available, will improve it even more.
Obviously, without the CDSD, I cant use SACD, so am just talking about redbook.
Nobody has mentioned that the APL 3910 is a single-ended design. Does this bother owners of fully balanced set-ups (like Atma-Sphere Preamps and amps, which I have)? Anybody know whether the Exemplar has balanced outputs?
I really don't believe there is any reason to doubt 711 Smlin's motives - in fact I would probably vote him the most enterprisng, energetic A'gon member I've ever heard of.......:)
I agree with Avguru. I too have tried a DV-50, ML 32, Krell KMA 160 KMA single-ended vs balanced and the balanced was clearly "better" to my ears. So I went to a completely balanced pre-amp and amp that were designed to be balanced preferentially. (Atma-Sphere)I won't go back, which is why the APL 3910 is of less interest to me than it may be to those with single-ended systems.
Can one of you gurus summarize for me, now, after all these record number of posts, a perceived qualitative alternative (at least "as good" whatever that means) to the EMM set-up that has:
1) Fully balanced outputs
2) Tubes
3) Audio 2 Channel only
4) SACD and redbook ability
5) Ability to sound better through a preamp
if so, you will save me deciphering 380 posts and I would be most grateful!
Tbg, I mean no multichannel, and, having a preamp-amp system (Atma-Sphere) designed to run fully balanced, it seems anathema to me - maybe illogically, but intuitively -not to use this feature. So, are there still many units?
Please name any other than Esoteric X-01/P70 (I am very obtuse:) But need to decide, as I have a DCC2 sitting alone and either need to sell it while it is still unblemished and virginal or commit myself to the indefinite wait for its mate.
Excellent question, Aldavis. I too, share your confusion, since my Atma-Sphere MP-1 adds similar musically pleasing "distortion" to my DCC2's output. I, too, await Aplhifi's response. I have an unlinked but important question to modders of Denon, Esoteric, etc: Jolida covers any mod work done by PartsConnexion (sold by Underwood HiFi); so, do the big boys, Denon, etc cover warranty work done by Exemplar/APL/Modwright, etc? - it would certainly make purchasing a modded unit less of a financial/repair gamble. You all know that it is more reassuring to have a big known brand-name stand behind any repair issues than a single person who may be busy/incapacitated/away to undertake a rapid repair of a modded unit. My transport on the Esoteric DV-50 just broke and I was told by TEAC that it would take 2 (two) working days to fix it!! Can individual modders undertake this? This is not a contentious troll, but of real world importance to potential buyers who want to know that their newest and best unit paid for by hard-earned bucks will be looked after in a timely fashion.
Alex,
So can you place this Audio Desk System in the 3910 with your other mods?

Do you have more problems with Denon transports than other makes?
Richard Kern's response is the stuff of which dreams are made - Alex's dreams. Nothing fuels the fires of interest, publicity and commercial success like a bit of sniping/outrage - as the success of tabloids tells us - and Mr Kern, in spitting the dummy (binky, in American) or throwing his toys out of the crib in a tantrum, has done just that. Calling potential buyers blathering, blind sheep is not smart. While I can understand Mr Kern's consternation, and applaud his honesty, I believe he has not helped Audiomod. But he probably knows that and let's give him the benefit of the doubt - he fell on his sword deliberately, on principle:)
In reality, Alex has not done anything that small manufacturers of any ilk, notably cables, have not done and continue to do.
According to Mr Kern, we, of the woolly,(pun intended) cerebrally challenged community of A'gon consumers, need a dual dose of censorship and independence, so as not to be misled by the self-promotion of modders/manufacturers. I disagree. I find the contributions of the likes of Alex and Richard Kern, and any other original designers, to be invaluable. And I would use Ralph Karsten as the role model.
Avguru, as Moderator of this thread, let me ask you a fundamental question: Is it acceptable for Richard Kern to post a statement that basically accuses those who have liked and tout the APL mods as being shills and have, in effect, being bribed to tout for him by discounts in return for favorable posts? I may be a stickler and old-fashioned, but let me tell you: (1)If I had been one of those claiming to like/prefer/admire APL mods, I would file a libel/defamation suit for character assassination against Richard in a heartbeat; (2) He did so after you asked for decorum and no ad-hominems; (3) A blanket "told by inside industry sources" is hardly proof, poor inuendo and a discredit to him; (4) If his accusations are true, and how can I know what he really knows as facts, I urge you to pursue this to the fullest, viz. his assertion that APL touts have been given any special dispensation to support his products; if you discover this, they disclose this immediately or be ejected from the forum and A'gon. It is now morally and, possibly legally, imperative for Richard Kern to substantiate those accusations. If I was Smilin711, Kern would be subpoened already. (5) It is totally unacceptable and against every tenet that A'gon stands for, to have as successful thread as this besmirched by accusations of blatant dishonesty against posters by a competitor unless he is prepared to back up his statements with full details. (6)I dont own, nor have heard an APL mod, but intend to hear for myself in my own home, how it sounds against the full Meitner DCC2/CDSD combo and have communicated with Alex regarding specs, price, etc, at length. Our e-mails can be made public. The price was as quoted everywhere on this forum, in fact, higher, because I am interested in balanced outputs, no quid pro quo was mentioned or even hinted at, nor was writing about the product anywhere and the correspondence was as professional as befits any 2 individuals, one buying and one selling; (7) I have always detested blanket accusations of dishonesty against posters simply because they espouse a product; however, not everybody is 100% honest, every idiot knows that, but the likelihood of groups of crooks rather than individual bad apples, strains the common sense and decency of normal, honest A'goners, who are not intellectually challenged or so street-dumb as to be misled by obvious deceipt. (8) I have never met Smilin711, Alex nor Richard Kern, so am not vouching/implying anything about any of their character traits; (9) What I am saying, however, is that it is unacceptable to not only imply, but to state that the APL fans are on the take: Dishonest;Crooks;Scoundrels - is not only offensive, but probably actionable. (10)If and when I get my APL3910 and, after comparing it to the full EMM gear, if the otcome is favorable to APL, and I publish it, and Kern accuses me of being a pimp, we will go to court, me with my e-mails to and from Alex and my cancelled check. Count on it.
Avguru, you have done an outstanding job so far. Now fix this.
If the response to posts avowing different sonic virues to different players from some posters is a fore-taste of the shoot-out, and there's no reason to believe otherwise, after reading the last few posts, I would forget about beer and wine, Brian, but consider instead getting the National Guard to come listen. (with M16s rather than CDPs.) You will need them to keep order. Ufb..................
Will there be an EMM DCC2/CDSD at the shoot-out? I only read of a DAC6/CDSD going there, but I could've missed it in 706 posts:). Isn't there a big difference in sound?