Could not agree more French_fries.
Does B&W have new drivers coming out or you mean the ones currently going into the 800Di? |
Do not want to offend anyone. Just read whole post before jumping. But I dont get it. Dont get this B&W bad feeling among many, supposed to be, higher end aficionados... After having owned them and per instance having listened to the Q5s and other for long periods.
I own TAD R1 now, and before buying them I listend to Magico Q5, TAD CR1 among many other highLy regarded. The speakers I replaced were B&W 800 Di. (so not biased towards any of them anymore), and actually felt the 800s could clearly be improvedi to be in line with rest of my system. So not saying B&W is the best out there... At all. BUT,
Where the Q5s better than the 800s. Overall yes, for sure, but not in every aspect. They lacked the dynamcis, punch and bass extension of the 800s... Although were better in transparency focus and definition, still the 800s sound had something... The others did not. While I would preffer the Q5s if I had to choose, in a price/performance relation, the election is not so clear. I think the 800s are great value. Hard to find something much better overall for the price or even slightly more.
Now the Magico thing is getting a bit boring in my opinion. They are great in some aspects, but by no means the best speaker or game changer at all to my ears (I actually considered buying them and was close, but being aware of their pros and cons, which you get of those as well). .Actually the TAD CR1 monitors were better ALL AROUND when compared to the Q5s. And that includes bass extension, definition, trnasparency, tonal richness and neutrality... To my ears.
I cant imagine how the Q1s may have such great bass at all considering what the Q5s did. I do think they will be very transparent, accurate, neutral and so on, but with limitations that has to be evident also in dynamics and scale.
Now the 805di I have not heard them. i do have a pair of the older 805 as rears for my HT set up. I listened to them in stereo a few times. I think they are very good, moreover for the money, period. If I had to guess, then Q1 will be far more resolving and neutral. You will get much more inner detial, but when it comes to bass extension (not accuracy) and dynamics, I would not bet on it... It then will come down to what one values most, and actually how he/she percieves value. Personally IfmI had to guessmInthink I would preffermthe Q1s but can see others not havingnsuch an electionmso clrearmifmyoumfactor in everything. |
You ve got to love this place!
I dont own the CR1 so why would you offend me? And even if I did, they are one of the best speakers I have listened to, and to my taste better than the Q5, so you would not either way.
In general, This hoby is just like real life. Worst thing is when people speak with no knowledge or first hand experience (which of course takes time and effort to get), but just based on what they are told or what they imagine based on who knows what they have in their mind... and still make such strong claims as if they were in posession of the only truth. When if fact most of the times, they have no clue of what they are talking about.,
And In particular, when it comes to your post, the CR1s is a new design that came out in 2010, entirely designed from zero by Andrew Jones. So don't know what you are talking about regarding a CR1 10 years ago, and I doubt you do either..
I had it in my system for quite a while as a trail, and I can tell you they are superb. Also they were flat at 40 and went down to 32 very decently, which for a monitor is quite something... but I guess you won't know that. Oh yes you do. You read it...
Anyway, I do think the Q5 is a good speaker but it has cons like any other design. You eventualy will have to admit it and live with it..., and if you don't, just think it is only my opinion and my taste, and live happy with the thought that finally someone managed to manufacture the perfect box and the absolute best speaker of all times.
Actually I considered it for a while, and was close to goiing for it. Q5 is, as I said very rich and accurate in tone, detailed, what they call now transparent and neutral... but then I found something, that after listening and not just reading (this is important my friend when audio is what we talk about) thought it was better.
So again ,no you did not offend me. i just think you have not listen to the CR1 or if you had, you heard but did not want to listen, or lastly, yes your taste is very different to mine. Although since we both seem to like the Q5 I doubt it is the later.... |
Thanks a lot NVP. It has been over a year of listening to many and trying. I really like them and I am enjoying very much. Out of the ones I tried, they are the best sounding to me, and not by a small margin. Yes I have to update. That system is totaly changed now from source to boxes. Will try to find the time.
That is my experience with the 800 di as well and I am very familiar with them. Excellent value. Yes there are better things but you will have to pay a lot more. If my budget was in the 20k area, I would buy them again everyday. You can buy for that money boxes that do this or that better, but on an overall picture, considering all factors they are the best I know at that price level. I think one problem of some is people tend to drive them with not the best power. They are big with 2X10 in and require lots of power and high current top amps to get that bass controlled.
I also think the Q1 will be better in absolute terms than 805 di, but not in all aspects, and not sure in relative terms either (cost factored, although that is very personal). But in this case I do have to admit my opinion is just that and of not much value since I have not heard them and it is only based on the sound of other models of the brand.
(is good to speak based in real personal experience and first hand knowledge, and if not and just guessing to do the propper disclaimer to help others. If we all did the same this place would be much more informative, and not the playground of kids beting on who can pee longer that sometimes seems. Lots of fun in any case)) |
Nvp, no there is not an older version of the CR1. There was a prototype running around for a few years, but never went into production. Was work in progress for the final CR1,
I do agree with prices, but that is unfortunately a widely industry spread issue and not of one brand or the other. Is funny (not at all) how a manufacturer releases a unit, gets brave reviews either from users at shows or wherever or from the JA and JVs of this world... and after a year they raise an already unsane price level by no less than 20 to 30 per cent. That is common practice now, and in my opinion a very poor practice that shows no respect for clients. But anyway.
Yes the CR1 are very very expensive even more for a monitor, but they are not really your typical monitor soundwise. While not a big speaker, they produce bigger! sound than others floorstanders I listened to costing more while doing all the good things a monitor does and then some. But yes, for 40k euro, they could have at least the (decency?) to include the stands... |
I just started a post for TAD speakers owners. We can take it there if you want. so far there are 0 posts...
But if it is going to be to write non sense, it was not really the intention of the if manual you feel TAD has no deep bass you either have to listen again, or get your ears checked. CR1 goes down to almost 30 although then it drops death. And the R1 have not done the test but bass is very very very deep.... And controlled as well. Quite something
Also to call these speakers colored, has me wondering what have you listened to. You may like or not the sound, presentation etc, but it is a fact these sepakers (the 3 of them) are not colored at all. Most neutral and accurate in tone I have heard ( again the 3 of them each in its range).
Your comments about deep bass and color, plus quality of materials/components, where per instnace, the concentric mid/tweeter Be drive both reference share, may be one of the most cost expensive out there really has me very surprised and wondering... |
Manual, looking at your posts, are you a magico dealer, associate or similar, or have any financial interest on it? You only seem to post on magico threads or magico related, and in common always all magico are great and all the rest is bad....¿? |
Manual, see, until your last post I was not. Your opinion about this or that speaker is just that and is fine with me, even though some of the things you say are simply not true (giving you the benefit of the doubt, let assume due to pure ignorance). And so I argue otherwise. But that is ok too, although of very little use. But if you take it personal, That I dont like.
since you dont seem to listen much... And you read a lot, or so you say, you should get better at it... PeterAyer owns a magico pair... He just wrote. i would assume he likes Magico.
an opinion on speakers based in measurements and photos you say you have? Pathetic... Not to mention measurments and photos done by someone else.
I see you think you know me very well. but we have never met, speak.. So once more you just read a few words and you know it all (but now on a personal level) So is this a general attitude in life you have and not only in audio?
This is the first time I have ever gotten in such a situation with another poster here or in any other forum. Not your case I see.... If you like to take it personal, look for your next Magico thread and go get personal and bother someone else. You seem to have lot of experience at it. With me you are done, I cry.
Get a life... Or a pair of speakers you like enough to actualy listen and do more lof that and less reading
Bye now. |
French_fries, I did not like the fact that you started a thread asking for opinions in good faith, which is what it all should be about, and you were forced to leave to avoid being attacked. That is why I jumped in giving my opinion. if you look at the different posts in this site of Usermanual, it is clear he has an agenda.
He looks for Magico threads, or threads of the type, best speakers of... And writes saying they are the best regardless of the model or anything else, and attacks systematically anyone who says not to like Magico, regardless of the gear he likes or owns. Just look at his posts and that will be enough to see he has no credibility. Either he has an agenda and a clear economic interest, or a Magico mental disorder....
if you do not want to get into a personal discussion, just to ignore him if he writes.you now where he is going to be coming from and going to.
Getting into music, yes I agree. B&W are good speakers, and specially in terms of price/performance. i have lisent the snails several times and they are very good indeed. If it wasnt for the mess of all the amps you need to drive them they would have been a speaker to consider in my case. They been around for many years, so they most be doing something right. |
