Are You a Swifty?

@tylermunns  a review of the new Swift album that echoes your observations about Antonoff. I agree with the review and so far as this new album is completely forgettable. 

A talented and self-aware, confident songwriter who had enough faith in her artistry to convince her conservative banker father to move to Nashville and help his daughter establish herself there. Plays the business beautifully and it’s a pleasure to watch her songwriting grow throughout the years. Compare the promise of "Tim McGraw" (2006) with 2022’s well-realized "Anti-hero".

Though not yet on a Dolly Parton level of philanthropy, she gives back to her communities and has single-handedly inspired a generation of females to dive into music and musicianship.

@gpgr4blu Madonna said she was a fan of Swift’s production skills. This says a lot seeing as how Madonna was a perfectionist when it came to her songs’ sound and space.

Her style may not be your aesthetic, but calling her "vapid and talentless" is simply ignorant.

@wesheadley I just discovered Hurray For The Riff Raff by simply browsing through Tidal's new releases in Folk/Americana. Good artist with some catchy progressions!

@allenf1963 

Fascinating. 

1. No one under 90 has used "ROTFLMAO" since, like, 2010. 

2. The DNC is contributing to what's apparently wrong with music today? 

3. "less than mediocre" - enough said. 

4. Yes, for four pages - to which you've now contributed

5. Okay, boomer. 

@loomisjohnson +1

@tylermunns 

"Taylor Swift’s music and her cynical exploitation of the American’s need for vapid pablum."

 This kind of wrinkles me. I mean, I'm no Swift apologist or celebrator, but that quote above just reeks of cultural gatekeeping -- as if you feel that you are somehow better and more astute than millions upon millions of musical appreciators in this country. It's on par with those in this community who feel that rap is not music.

@tylermunns look, I'm not arguing that we as a society are attracted by the superficial and hollow (and yes, I do lisyen to swift and have seen a few shows), but again, labeling her fans as vapid is snobbery at its finest. 

Are you without fault? Do you have no superficial and shallow interests? If not, you must be a total bore to hang out with. 

@tylermunns Buddy, you can semantically parse your words all you want but, yes, you are enforcing a completely arbitrary and arrogant gateway for what can be considered legitimate art. I'm sorry, that's your opinion and I guess you're entitled to it but, again, you come across as holier-than-thou.

Rest assured I don't take anything you say personally (I mean, why would I? Though judging by the sheer amount of your own word salad you're tossing, you seem to invest a lot of emotion in this forum). But, yes, your earlier comment about 

"It seems odd to me that you would describe as "boring" the hypothetical person who eschews superficial and shallow things (presumably in favor of exciting/interesting/smart things)" 

reinforces my point about snobbery. Your "exciting/interesting/smart" (whatever the hell that last descriptor means) things are to millions boring, meaningless, and uninspiring. 

And your earlier comment:

"Whether there is any merit to exposing oneself to a significant swath of Top 40 music in 2024" 

has been adapted by many and applied to just about any year of pop music over the past half century or more. As if Top 40 music of 1994 or 1984 or 2004 had more or less merit. 

@tylermunns Nothing of what you've blathered about has struck a nerve save for the unctuous manner in which you blather. At least millercarbon had a sense of humor.

And yes, I did say "legitimate art" as that's the conclusion one can reach about your opinions on the manner. 

Anyway, best of luck with things. 

@tylermunns at the risk of being unctuous myself, the term is "good'un", not 'goodin'  

Sheesh, along with the "That dog dont bite", you're about as folksy as a credit card. 

Anyhow, I can tell that you're defensive and thin-skinned, so I'm going to bow out of this conversation. I'll let you get the last word in as you are bound to do anyway. I would advise you to learn to take criticism and not associate pushback with attack. 

@mahgister 

I don't think being old has anything to do with liking or not like Swift or Gaga or any contemporary music any more than being a 20-something has anything to do with loving Nina Simone or Julie London or Jean-Luc Ponty. For you it seems more a question of style and being comfortable with what you enjoy, rather than making an effort to make room for new voices.

Forgive me for being didactic here, but it's like making friends as you get older: it's harder to do because everyone already has pretty much filled their social lives. And yet every now and then we make room. 

Like, I discovered Jasmine Sandlas, a Punjabi hip-hop artist, a few years ago and made room for her catalog in my listening. But a friend tried to get me into Muse and I just couldn't make room for them. Yet. Maybe in a few years, but probably not. 

And not to be cliche, but my mom would always blast Amalia Rodriguez when I was growing up - got me to make room for Fado early on. 

@mahgister  I sometimes look at it this way: how much of the music I listen to now do I think I'll still be listening to in 5 or 10 or even 15 years? And I think some music is perfectly fine to recognize as being of the five-year variety and then I'll let that music go because it has done its job and I'll move on to and consume another type of music that will last another 5 years. 

But I think when we were younger we tend to pack a lot of music that does last for 15 20 25 years or longer, like even 50 or longer, and the more we have of that music the less patience we have for a lot of the stuff that comes after it. Like I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on Lady Gaga who is incredibly insightful and personal in her lyrics and music and is definitely not a manufactured, controlled mass produced artist. Not at all.

But then again, I remember a few years ago so and told me that Rihanna had a really good voice, and I remember saying something to the effect of how could you tell because she sounds the same as a lot of other singers. Which of course she doesn't and I know that but I'm not invested enough to actually discern her voice and approach to music among all the other artists who I think are similar.

No one ever accused Dylan of being able to sing

@immatthewj  I've been listening to Dylan for decades and decades and I've seen him in concert a few times and I still stand by the fact that he really does not know how to sing. However like all the people decrying Swift as being talentless, that's just my opinion and my opinion doesn't mean anything

Here's a reason article that puts it into a, for me at least, more understandable perspective. Like the writer says, I don't necessarily dislike Swift I'm just not affected by her at all. Her Artistry simply doesn't speak to me, no matter how much talent she has.

@roxy54 so true. Her voice, like Beth ortons, is powerful yet divisive. 

@immatthewj  I guess because his Melodies and his lyrics are so engaging. They're good enough I can Overlook his voice.

@botrytis  idk, there are plenty of artists in my Gen X generation who don't speak to me at all. I mean just about everyone I knew in college and an adulthood raved about Smashing Pumpkins and Violent Femmes and Dave Matthews and for me they are completely forgettable artists. Again, not taking away from their Artistry or influence but there's no connection at all.

@botrytis Inasmuch as the COA's (Crusty Old Audiophiles) making calls to "cue up Joni" seem out of touch with the present. But then again, Joni never really resonated with me, either (though "Help Me" has some of the prettiest chord progressions I've ever heard). 

In terms of out of touch judgment, did you ever have the pleasure of reading the (probably deleted now) threads on the artistic worth of modern hip hop/rap artists? That's when the COAs really started barking. 

@mahgister I can see your point. As a lifelong Rush fan, I've grown to love Geddy's range and register, while acknowledging how it can be a turn-off for many.