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Reference DACS: An overall perspective

There has been many threads the last few months regarding the sonic signature of some of the highest regarded reference DACS (Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) here on the GON. I have been very fortunate to audtion many of these wonderful pieces in my home or friend's systems. I wanted to share, in a systematic way, my impressions/opinions with you GON members for a two reasons: 1)That my experiences might be helpful to fellow members interested in audtioning these DACS. 2)Starting an interesting discussion regarding the different "sonic flavors" of these reference digital front ends. I totally agree with the statement, "if you have not heard it you don't have an opinion". Therefore, I have no comments regarding DACS from Weiss,Goldmund,Audio Aero and Burmester because I have never had the pleasure of audtioning them. I would love to hear from members who have and share their experiences with us. My overall impression is that these DACS(Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) can be grouped into two molar categories regarding their overall sonic signature. By the way, all of them can throw a large/deep soundstage with excellent layering in the acoustic space with "air" around individual players on that stage. However, than they start to part company into two major categories. Category #1) These DACS "flavors" revolve around pristine clarity, fine sharp details,speed,very extended top/bottom frequencies,and great PRAT. These DACS never sound "etched" or "in your face" but are more "upfront" then "layed back" in their presentation. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Dcs,Ensemble,Meitner. My personnal favorite in this group is the Ensemble, which I owned for two years. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Wilson,Thiel,Dynaudio, Focal/JM Labs. Category #2) These DACS "flavors" revolve around a "musical/organic" sense, natural timbres,and an easy flowing liquidity. Their "less forward" presentation my give the impression of less detail, but I think in this case its an illusion fostered by their more relaxed/organic manner. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts. I did find that the tube DACS did not have the top/bottom frequency extenstion and PRAT of the SS DACS in this bracket. For me, the Accustic Arts DAC1-MK3 gave me the best of both categories, therefore it is now the resident DAC in my system. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Magnepan,Von Schweikert,Sonus Faber. Well, it's all just my opinion regarding these digital pieces, but I hope this post was at least informative/somewhat interesting and would lend itself to other GON members sharing their impressions, not about what DAC is the "BEST" in the world, but your personnal taste and synergy with your system.
teajay
bodhi
49 posts
 
Wisnon, don't shoot the messenger. My understanding is that most dacs (including the SCD-025) down-convert the DSD signal to PCM, therefore logically there would be little advantage to handle DSD256 recordings which in any case have very few titles. To be honest, I think DSD is over-hyped. The secret to great sound is in the recording and mastering of the album and the skill of the Designer to create a musical sounding dac. Formats get thrown around like a panacea which they are not. Just ask Steve Hoffman or David Chesky. Anyway, I won't be rushing out to buy a Lampi dac. The SCD-025 is a killer dac & is here to stay!
agear
1,362 posts
 
08-01-15: Bodhi
Wisnon, don't shoot the messenger. My understanding is that most dacs (including the SCD-025) down-convert the DSD signal to PCM, therefore logically there would be little advantage to handle DSD256 recordings which in any case have very few titles. To be honest, I think DSD is over-hyped. The secret to great sound is in the recording and mastering of the album and the skill of the Designer to create a musical sounding dac. Formats get thrown around like a panacea which they are not. Just ask Steve Hoffman or David Chesky. Anyway, I won't be rushing out to buy a Lampi dac. The SCD-025 is a killer dac & is here to stay!

Bodhi, while I agree that the recording dictates ultimate quality (I have Hoffman recordings that are both good and not so good), the reconstruction of the "data" radically alters the experience. DSD can be sublime when the data is not perverted (PCM down-conversion). The Lampizator is one of the few dacs that does not piss in the stream. I have a Golden Gate that handles up to DSD256, and its pretty spectacular. I heard your dac in a SOTA room and system that approached 300k. It was very good, but we both preferred the Brinkmann table. I know sonic memory is deceptive as is human nature (we promote what we own), but the Lampizator is better by a substantial margin.....you may want to reconsider...:)

BTW, Bodhi, post your system. That would be helpful....
bodhi
49 posts
 
I have noted all your comments Agear, though again I don't believe formats usurp the mastering and recording process or for that matter the skill of the Designer of a dac. And one has to keep in mind the number of titles available on DSD is tiny in comparison to the available titles on RBCD. And you cannot touch or interact with the physical media.

Just one question, when did you audition the SCD-025? There was a major update to this player in Q1, 2015 as I mentioned earlier incl: a new, upgradeable master clock, new I/V converter, new analogue modules etc and is basically a whole new beast. Hans Ole told me he was shocked by the level of improvement & said the player was "about 50% better" than the old version. You might want to check with your Dealer as the two players are not comparable ;).
wisnon
700 posts
 
Bodhi, quite simply the GG dac is a killer. Unfortunately, I "only" have the Big7 which also is a killer to my ears.

Dunno about you, but I have tons of DSD (thank you PS3) and I also can upconvert on the fly to DSD via HQP.

Lampi DSD is Chipless, so DSD is played back truly in its native state. When you hear it, you will understand why both Elberoth and AudioCrack of WB Forum both have a Lampi GG Dac (especially for DSD) in addition to their Trinity dacs. Trinity costs 3x as much and they both had the Trinity first.

So, I cant knock your Dac, as I never heard it, but the GG is special...
bodhi
49 posts
 
Wisnon, I was actually reflecting today that I should have been more generous in my praise of the Lampi dsd dacs as yes, I was aware Adam (Elberoth) who I respect owns a Big 7 Level 5. I could also be mistaken about the number of DSD titles out there. By all reports it is a very well built and great sounding dac.

I feel I should just make a couple of important points here. Firstly the latest spec Vitus SCD-025 which I own is about 50% better than the previous spec player which Agear heard (which was already regarded by many as the best single box cd player in the world). It is true balanced, has very wide bandwidth, resolution & low noise, whilst sounding on the warm side and mellifluous. Vitus use very sophisticated (and expensive!) robotic machinery and manufacturing techniques which are second to none, including Boulder. They use their own all-discrete analogue modules drawn from the SL-102 preamp, an extremely accurate master clock and use zero negative feedback. During the development and testing phase of this player, the references used were the old spec SCD-025 and a Techdas AF1 with thales tonearm & Dynavector x1s cartridge connected to a Masterpiece Series phono stage. Not bad!

Also keep in mind a system is more than a dac, no matter how good it sounds in and of itself. Just as how good or bad a recording sounds does not depend on the number of 'bits'. It is the sum of all its parts and the synergy they impart. I've built my system on that principle, with no weak links, and in fact plan on expanding my family of Vitus Signature Series components later this year which will take my rig to the next level.

Another thing i've learnt is, you'll never convince a fan of tube dacs that a ss dac sounds as musical. I couldn't even convince a 'phile who owned a Chinese Vincent cd player that my Vitus dac might just sound better.

The above comments are purely for balance. I can see both from looking at the exceptional build quality of the Lampi dacs & the GG's expensive parts bin that it is a serious dac. The balanced GG dac is $17kEUR, whilst the Vitus is $19kEUR, thus the pricing suggests these dacs are more peers than killer vs just very good.

Finally, yes I would accept if you were playing purely DSD files, the Lampi would likely have the edge. Though amongst the hundreds of millions of digital recordings, including Indy recordings, only a tiny percentage are currently available on DSD. Though I accept if you avidly purchase from that small title list, you would end up with a considerable collection. And if you illegally rip SACD's via a PS3, you would likely expand that list further. But it's still a tiny percentage, and virtually unrepresented in Indy and world music. I'm taking note, but won't be rushing out any time soon to buy one. Just saying.
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