Bowers and Wilkerson B&W 802 D3: an impolite Brit?


I heard the new Bowers and Wilkerson 802 D3 today, only the second time they have been heard in public, at an L.A. Audio society event. They have a very large soundstage, and are exceptionally dynamic. The bass is not as good as Magico for example, because of the ported design, but is nonetheless quite good. Detail is excellent, perhaps to a fault. What I don't like about them is that they are quite forward, an anomaly among British speakers. I was experiencing listening fatigue after an hour.I don't know if that is the diamond tweeter, or simply how the speaker/crossover is voiced. Tone of the speakers is not quite real. Being this forward and somewhat more detailed than real life, sells well, but does not please as years and decades go by in my opinion.
FWIW, my mom still has a series 802 that I still find pleasing, and neither too forward or polite, with sealed woofer and bextrene midrange.
Not too sound like sour grapes, it is fabulous pop/rock and home theater speaker, and worth its price given the economy of scale B & W possesses and 8 year redesign effort by a talented team with huge technical resources...but the tone thing is critical for jazz/classical/acoustic instrument lovers. I don't think it's the right choice for them. I am a high quality 2 way stand mount plus subwoofer kind of guy.
(Harbeth Compact 7 ES3 with REL Strata III sub)
Your thoughts?

Tom
tompoodie
Right now the only criticism I can aim at them is a slight sibilance in the higher ranges of the human voice along with the boominess in certain low frequencies of the human voice. Tomorrow I hope to see if the sibilance can be eliminated with less toe-in, while also trying to decrease the lower voice frequency boominess by moving further off one of the walls. Hopefully this is possible without the center of the soundstage becoming too diffuse...

In any case, it's still worlds better than my current setup.
"Tomorrow I hope to see if the sibilance can be eliminated with less toe-in, while also trying to decrease the lower voice frequency boominess by moving further off one of the walls."

Its not likely that toe in will get rid of sibilance. That's an equipment matching issue.
It is disappointing to see sweeping comments about B&W speakers as "bright", "edgy", "fatiguing", "never had bass" etc without identification of the speaker model and system components.

I have owned the CDM1, CDM2SE, CDM1NT, CM1, 804S, 803D, 803Diamond, 800Diamond.

The only speaker out of that list that I found a bit "edgy" and "bright" was the CDM1NT. With the same system components at that time (Sony CD player and Plinius amplifier) the CDM1 and CDM2SE were warm and easy to listen.

The 80xDiamond series as compared to the 80xD series do have tweeters that are measurably more sensitive. So the 80xDiamond they can sound bright if auditioned with bright components. However with suitable matched components, I found the speakers compelling, easy to listen, transparent, and have superb bass for size of speaker.

I lived with the 803D and then 803Diamond for about 5 years. I listened almost every day for on average a few hours without any fatigue and or sense of significant tonal imbalance.

Perhaps my careful consideration of component matching, speaker positioning and mains quality paid dividends!
Perhaps my careful consideration of component matching, speaker positioning and mains quality paid dividends!
Mark_nz
this is precisely the issue - anytime you have to 'carefully' match components so that the system sounds just right, you have a problem with one or more components in that chain. In this thread, it's all about speakers so let's concentrate on speakers. If a speaker is time-coherent (which B&W are not even by a long shot) then component matching becomes a non-issue. Time-coherent speakers sound good with almost any electronics & on any genre of music. Of course, the better the electronics & the better the recording, the better the output sonics.
I wager that if you would have changed one item in your then-system that had the B&Ws your system would have collapsed performance-wise. That would not have been good.

Jkalman, the sibilance is a phase distortion issue & it won't go away with toe-in (like Zd542 wrote). I bet that whatever you try you will not be able to get rid of it. It's inherent in the speaker design & the 4th order x-over. The boomy bass is due to the poor port design. B&W cannot get this right & didn't get it right even in my DM604S2 nor in my friend's 803D. Port design is hard to start with - you have to start & stop a slug of air at a moment's notice given the fact that the bass from the port is 180 degrees out-of-phase with the bass cone driver. If you don't design this correctly, you get bass overhang or what you call boomy bass - the previous bass notes hung around too long & interfere with the next bass notes (from the next bit of music) & smear it.
Play some tracks from Diana Krall's Love Scenes - sibilance city if you will. Let us know at point in time you walked out of the room!

Also, like I did with my DM604S2, play some Diana Krall & careful note where the soundstage is & where DK is in the soundstage. Then, immediately next play some Frank Sinatra. Once again note where the soundstage is & where FS is in that soundstage. Any difference between the 2 soundstages?
Jkalman,

I have followed your threads over the years and I am curious what you are running now.

I have a love hate relationship with B&W. fatigue has always been my issue and why I have not bought a pair over the years. Do the upper mids seem smother on the D3?