Mint Protractor for the Classic Toneram 10.5i-SE

Captain_winters,

First off, I'm going to put my tail between my legs and admit I was wrong about the S2P distance. After re-measuring it again with great care and a friend's help, it is indeed 258 mm. I think I didn't account for the difference in the height angle between the spindle and pivot.

Now, the info you provided is awesome, and pretty much what I've found as well. I do believe Yip uses Bearwald so the overhang should indeed be close to 15 mm as you stated. I think VPI uses their own geometry, which is close to Lofgren B, but not exactly it. The Vinyl Engine article I linked to explains it in more detail. A few years ago I had a conversation regarding protractors with Mike, and if I recall correctly, he said the VPI jig was designed to minimize distortion in the last 1/3 of the record.

As far as the Mint not fitting over the spindle, I initially had some difficulty fitting it as well, but after working it a little, it eventually went all the way down snugly and now fits perfectly. I guess it does not matter now since you fixed it anyway.

Once again, thank you all, especially Captain_winters, for your feedback and contribution to this thread. There is a lot of great info in it that will hopefully help many others.

Great news I am glad it is 258mm, yes the height makes a big difference. The spindle to pivot distance should be measured on the same horizontal plane.
As another point, after you dial in your VTA, realign with the MINT, otherwise your stylus will not be on the ARC. And all that work to get your stylus perfect is in vain. VTA changes make a big difference on the MINTLP, as you increase the VTA height, you will need to pull the cartridge forward to compensate, and keep the stylus on the arc.

Ken Willis makes a custom protractor (Accutrak) for any specific application. Just send him the model turntable and tonearm and also measure the pivot to spindle distance. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97229.0 Manufacturing tolerances vary by a millimeter or two since most table/arm combos are assembled by hand and not on an assembly line. Get a metal ruler from harbor freight for a couple of dollars and measure the distance.

Your question was answered in the first post with the source cited and you completely dismissed it as wrong and slammed the poster. Later, it was confirmed that the S2P info on VE was incorrect based on info provided by VPI and again you refuted the claim.

Twenty posts later, you learn how to use a ruler and now decide that the first post was correct and that the info on VE is wrong. Thanks for contributing to the confusion by vehemently stating facts that were indeed wrong.

Testpilot,

Why are you so angry? The only "slamming" in this thread was your tirade that brought nothing to the discussion. But thank you for telling us that apparently you're having a bad day, or are an angry man in general, or both.

At worst, I criticized VPI for providing inconsistent data, which is understandably frustrating and nothing new. The Classic tonearm WAS mounted with a S2P of 262 mm at some point, and Ken Willis still makes two protractors for the Classic tonearm based on two different S2P distances (258 and 262 mm, not to mention Yip who apparently uses 259 mm) so my skepticism was valid, and measuring can be tricky. I have no problem with a manufacturer changing specs on their product, but a heads-up for the customers would be nice (e.g., through adding an identifying symbol when a product is changed). The very tonearm in question is a good case in point as good luck finding its true effective mass, and which version you actually have if you're a Classic turntable owner - aluminum, steel, a combination, a combination with more damping? So yes, I did dismiss the data provided by VPI based on my experience, but did not slam the poster.

Similarly, to say that the article on Vinyl Engine was based on the wrong info is just nonsense as when it came out it was based on the specs released by VPI and on the measurements of their own jigs. The article might have less substantive validity today after VPI apparently changed some of their specs, but it certainly makes a valid point regarding lack of transparency and confusing information from the manufacturer. I love my turntable, and think VPI is a great company, but I wish they made it a bit less frustrating for owners of their products in this hobby where great accuracy is the key to the desired goal of faithful music reproduction.

In the end, all was clarified, and I see no confusion, just a lot of good info and a cordial discussion. That is until you decided to change that. So thank you very much sir. I hope you feel better now.