CJ vs. BAT vs. THOR preamps, who's best?

Thanks, Bill, and John.

wow! given what I've found out first hand in the BAT gears reproduction of music I'm a bit flabergasted to hear that another and yet, sweeter mid can be produced, apart from BAT.

I enjoy all sorts of music. All sorts. Except 'Hip Hop' & 'Rap'. ain't real big on monks doing mantras either... but mostly I live in the Blues, Jazz, Vocals area of music... though if it be a good recording, I do enjoy it immensely. Whatever the genre... even opera & classical. That's a big strectch for me as I've been known to say in the past, when asked aobut what music I have on hand, "I have both kinds, Country... and Western'. Long time since those days, though.

Mating to the solid state amp well seems the issue as personally I think any ov the three pres would float my boat, so to speak. My local CJ dealer is mostly a tube type. All the way. It's doubtful he'll ever have the P350 on hand at the same time as say a LS17, or CT6, so finding out about that part continues to elude me...

So about the service end of things and matching to solid state amps with any of these pres seems the question that is foremost my concern.... Anyone know which of these pres should not be mated to a SS amp? (likely either the BAT vk600 or CJ Premeir 350), and for a time right off, the BAT vk500 I have now)....???

I think synergy has a lot to do with the sound, and if you do decide on a CJ preamp I'd highly recommend mating it with the 350. I know a bigtime CJ fan, who moved up from a Premier 16LS mk II/Premier 8 monoblock setup to an ACT2/350 and couldn't be happier. He claims the 350 is the best sounding CJ amp he's ever heard. He's a 20 year fan of CJ, and knows Bill and Lew personally.

That said, I was running a pair of Clayton Audio M100 monoblock amps at the time of the CJ/BAT preamp testing that I mentioned above. The M100's have a rather low input impedence, which would favor the BAT, since it has a lower output impedence. Perhaps if I'd heard both preamps with the CJ 350 I would have choosen to keep the CJ instead of the BAT, who knows? Yes, the CJ does have a sweeter vocal range than the BAT, but in my system, the BAT did so much other stuff better (dynamics, power, soundstage, etc) that in the end I choose it. Since then I've mated it with a BAT VK-600SE and haven't looked back. I running fully balanced with a BAT VK-P10SE w/ Super-Pak phono stage and a VK-D5SE w/Super-Pak and I'm very happy. :-)

The CJ was very good, and came in second in my preamp search last year. I went through preamps from Mark Levinson, Krell, Threshold, VAC, CJ and BAT, all in my system. The BAT VK-51SE was my personal favorite by far. The CJ was a distant second. However, like I said, if I had it mated with a CJ amp, perhaps the results would have been different.

I listen to mostly jazz, blues and folk, and I do admit that on most vocal material the CJ was the best preamp. However, there's more to music than the vocals, for me anyway. The CJ just could not boogie like the BAT. As always, YMMV.

The BAT preamp run balanced would sound best with your current BAT amp. It's a shame your dealer won't carry a 350, since I've talked to many who swear it's the sweetest sounding SS they've ever heard.

You have a tough, but fun decision to make as to which direction you want to go musically. The 'house sound' of CJ is very sweet, inviting and extremely musical. The BAT 'house sound' is BIG, dynamic and powerful. Not that the CJ doesn't do dynamics, or the BAT is not musical, because they do. I would think that the rest of your system would decide which is a better fit.

Since you only do digital, and are using the VR-4 JR's, I think you may prefer the CJ. My friend had a pair of VR-4JR's (he's since moved on to Revel speakers), but from what I remember of his VR-4JR's they were very quick and dynamic, but a bit lean. So the added warmth of the CJ may work better in your system than in mine. My speakers (Verity Audio Parsifal Encore's) are very warm and sweet, and enjoy the added punch and life of the BAT equipment.

It seems like we have similar musical tastes, but different systems. There is more than one way to reach musical nirvana. You've choosen three very interesting paths. Only one that you know. Just one word of precaution, sometimes the best is already in front of you and you don't know it.

By that I mean that before starting my 7 preamp world tour last year, my preamp was a BAT VK-31SE. I was sure it was my preamp that needed to be upgraded. Over the next 6 months I bought and sold 6 preamps (I kept one). Many were big dissapointments. It was after the first two preamps came and went, rather quickly I might add, that I realized I'd made a mistake selling the BAT VK-31SE. My final choice really did come down to the CJ 16LS mk II or the BAT VK-51SE.

So if you're happy with the music you're hearing now, save money and buy more software.

Sorry for rambling,

John

I've used a CJ 17LS on my BAT VK500 without a problem.
This would be a nice combo if you like a more relaxed
and slightly laid back sound. If your considering a
CJ preamp I would recommend a listen to the CJ CT-5.
I just replaced my 17LS with the CT-5 and the difference
is huge. I think a Premier 350/CT-5 combo would be very
nice.

Good luck

Well, I'm sorry it's so long before getting back to this thread... but thanks Cmach, and John..

Following a recent trip to the nearest CJ dealer my thoughts as to buying CJ's newest offerings have sorely diminished. Could wwell have been the setup.. synergy... or the mix. Nothing jump[ed out at me and said, "buy me!". Nothing. I wound up the auditions with the CT5 & 70wpc tube amp, CJ's replacement for their vaunted 60wpc unit. using the Cary hybrid CD player... and some quasi Quadd speakers from Austrailia... real pretty and pretty expensive too... On the whole it just didn't grab me. About as neutral a system as I had experienced. the dealer did say both pre & amp had the recomended 100 hours on them... I think they needed twice that or more... the sound was quick, open, extended, with decent bottom end given the plannar speakers sans sub... Nice enough though for the cost of the items together and their place in CJ's line up, well, lets just say I've a far more involving system. Warmer, richer, better imaging, and far better bottom end resolution, with greater presence in the mids too... not counting wiring for the cost of the CT5 ALONE.

...as John said so aptly,
"...Just one word of precaution, sometimes the best is already in front of you and you don't know it."

That's a big 10/4!

Not having the ability to just pick up and go as most do, finding out by comparison what level of system I have, has been sorely overlooked. Things are quite good at blindjim's house. Not perfect, just very good. I'll take that... for the time being and be satisfied with 'tweeking' things a bit with wiring, stands, another sub and such. I'm even more accepting of the JR's now... as they are finally broken in and sounding much better... but a few more db's of sensitivity would be nice.. say 90?

The dealer was quite nice and helpful, as always.. and we decided the only true way to determine what's what, is take a 'whatever' home and try it there... that's the ticket. ...and I just might, given the above posting to the effect that a single ended pre works good with the balanced BAT amp I have... that was/is a big concern for me.... as wholesale changes can not be made now or in the near future... so now, with a new & different set of NOS tubes and searching for some IC's between BAT & BAT, I'm pretty satisfied with my gear.

That's my problem as I see it... having the notion that the grass is always greener on the other side... it ain't always... and I've found if I'm thinking the grass is greener on the other side, it's time to water my own lawn.

With the thor gear I heard some time back, being the best "That's the ticket!" sound I've heard in over twenty years, I'm going to wait a while longer... My amp, as far as amps go, is near new being just under three years old... my pre is solid and does a great job. the CDP is quite nice and would require me spending mucho bucks to improve upon... so yep... gonna stick with what I've got and just tweak it a mite. ...although another 'door' may well have opened as I've found out that 'V.A.C.' ala Mr. Hayes, is not terribly far away either... and that's a balanced configuration too. Super! What does a VAC pre soundlike? Given their pricing, I'd say it ought to be hot... though given my latest audition of similarly priced units, then again, maybe not quite as hot as I imagine... we'll see. Hopefully.

Thanks, everyone... really. it's a tremendous ehlp to me to have those personal experiences related.

RE:VAC - best preamps I have heard, including Thor, BAT and CJ, for sheer palpability and musicality it doesn't get much better, at any price. Very involving sound, as if you are really "there". Started with a Standard LE and now have the top of the line Phi 2.0, mated to a McCormack DNA-500 amp. Sheer magic. Kevin is also one of THE nicest, most service-oriented people in audio and a real pleasure to deal with. He really stands behind his gear and he will work with you to match your preferences with what he has available, if there is a fit.

You owe it to yourself to go visit, especially if he's nearby - it will definitely be worth your while and may be quite eye- and ear-opening. Talking with him really helped me tremendously. Also, his products are built to last a lifetime - truly world-class equipment.