Linn Sondek LP12 impressions

Kiko65, I don't think any of the TT's you mention give one the option of starting with the cheaper basic design and then changing out parts to optimize the sound. Your example of the Rock 7 certainly doesn't! The Rock 7 has a fixed motor and chassis, no upgrade path there, power supply...what power supply?, support...is what you get and so on. The LP12 allows all of these options to be changed out ( and improved upon) as funds allow. To say one can change cartridge and arm and phono pre is missing the point. The BASIC TT remains the same in your example!!! Not so with the LP12! Anyway, YMMV.

I guess we are both missing the point DaveyF.

In many cases "BASIC TTs" don't require chasis/motor changes nor extremely expensive "upgrades" because they are simply good enough to compete with the best of the best.

Your point, start with an entry level LP12 and build all the way up as funds allow by changing parts to optimize sound. We can both agree that this is a very expensive upgradeable path; from $4,200.00 to $20,000.00+

My point, start with something more substantial than an already quite expensive entry level turntable like the Majik LP12 and optimize sound by changing ancillary equipment such as tonearm, cart, external power supply, etc.

Not many manufacturers offer an upgradeable path like Linn. However, they do offer different models with noticeable cost effective improvements moving up the line.

Rega for example:
Compare the entry level RP3 to the top of the line RP10. Similar in many ways but EVERY component is vastly improved moving up the line; upgraded plinth, sub-platter, platter, feet, pulley, belt, power supply, tonearm, etc.
From $895.00 to $5,995.00

Don't get me wrong Daveyf, I have always praised the Sondek LP12 because it is a darn good turntable. Still considered one of the top turntables by many audiophiles. Ranked Stereophile Class A analog component.

What I cannot do is justify spending $20,000.00+ on a Sondek LP12 when I could buy a state of the art turntable for a fraction of the cost.

Anyway YMMV.

Kiko65, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Where can you buy a SOTA TT that is a 'fraction' of the cost of the LP12 and that is better than the top grade LP12?....I don't know of any such TT. IMHO, the Rega's are not in the same league as a top flight LP12...ANY Rega. I recently 'AB'ed my LP12 Radikal against a friend's new Palmer, I can tell you the LP12 in my system was far more to my liking. Like I said before, YMMV.

There are tables such as Clearaudio, Brinkmann and AMG that would get my money before a blown LP12 but that is just a personal preference. I own a Clearaudio and am equally impressed with the other German tables. If you go British and suspended, I prefer the AVIDs.

Magazines in the UK during the 1980s were embarrassing in falling over themselves to anoint Rega and Linn as the only two worthy tables to the point that a lot of very good designs went away. Magazines are not as afraid to call out weakness of products today.

More recent reviews of the LP12 seem to be polite rather than truly enthusiastic. Revered more as a surviving design that is respected but not truly representative the best that can be had from a modern turntable though certainly competitive as one flavor of high end.

Linn did themselves a disservice by not bringing out a more modern turntable with a clean sheet design like their competitors.

BTW the Linn Majik package is actually quite nice but it failed one of my critical tests. I have an LP that everyone of my 12 turntables can play. It has a small pressing defect that would always skip on my old LP12. I took it to my local Linn dealer and it skipped on the Majik but not on the fully blown LP12 . So I need to spend $20k on a Linn to play a record that my $350 Pro-Ject Debut can easily play. And BTW the Majik even had a Pro-ject arm.

Sorry, just having a little fun but it was one of the things that bothered me about my Linn. It would not play certain records that my other tables would. That's not good enough in my book. Not for Rolex money for a base model.

But I agree with you Daveyf.

I trully believe that a fully upgraded Klimax LP12 is in another league facing very few competitors.

I'm a huge fan of Rega (simplicity/cost effective/musicality) but I also have to agree with you that the top of the line RP10 is not in the same league as a top flight Klimax LP12. That said, it comes really close to the Akurate LP12 at half the price.

Get my point? If your idea is to keep the same TT for life then the entry level Majik LP12 (or any used Sondek LP12 in pristine condition) makes sense because of its upgradeable path as funds allow.

However, if your idea is to go with something great but more affordable, then there are many options out there; Sota, VPI, Acostic Signature, Rega, Clearaudio, Thoresns, Townshend, just to name a few.

You also hit the nail when you expressed that the LP12 was more "to your liking" when compared to the Palmer. You mentioned you got "burned" at the Linn vs Sota blog, correct? It's hard to persuade others to agree with your own opinions.

That's exactly the beauty of this hobby. Put together a nice system that will satisfy your ears based on your budget. Heck, my entire analog system falls under $15,000.00 and I'm pretty sure that many analog lovers are on the same boat.

In the end Daveyf, there is no right or wrong, just a matter of preference.

I can honestly tell you that, to my ears, my current fully tweaked Rega/DV P-75/Delos driven by Rogue Audio sounds far more to my liking that my late Linn LP12/Lingo/Linto driven by Linn.

The thread started with the following question "I was wondering if someone still uses this old designed turntables" Obviously the answer is "YES", many people still love this old design. But there is no doubt in my mind that many analog lovers (including me) would prefer to spend $2k-$4k on a newly designed TT instead.

No hard feelings, just my opinion.