SACD 2 channel vs Redbook 2 Channel

First off, I have had TOO MUCH experience with SACD players. I sold them for 3 years since they were formally intruduced to the USA at MY STORE back in 99'/00'

I have also owned about a half dozen players including the SCD-1 by Sony. They have all long since been sold off over the last year.

As for listening to improperly setup equipment, I always take note of a product if it is setup improperly.

As for companies getting on the SACD bandwagon, after 4 years since its introduction there are probably still less than 3-4 dozen players total. MOST are from Sony and Philips, and that is a poor sign.WHy dont you do your homework first? Do you know how many companies had CD players out 4 years after the introduction of CD???? HUNDREDS. Its well known that SACD isnt going anywhere. If anything should take off its going to be DVD-A which I feel is a better format to grow for future sound improvements.

As for my "Betamax" analogy, its based on the fact that your not going to get many SACD's released. After 4 years how many SACD's are there? A few hundred.WHo released most of em? Sony. Thats not going to get me hopping up and down, and alot of them dont garner better sound. For every company you can name that has made one, I can name another 10 companies that wont be making a SACD player. But this isnt really my argument here.

What disc's you say sound better on redbook? Here is a small starter list:

Dark side of the Moon: Pink Floyd(would you care to hear Roger Waters take on SACD?)
Ambassador Satch: Louis Armstrong( if you think SACD sounds better, time to upgrade your speakers and CDP)
Jazz at the Plaza: Miles Davis (imaging and seperation are far superior on Redbook)SACD sounds really compressed.
Couldnt Stand the weather: Stevie Ray Vaughn
Reflections: BB King

These are just a few.But my point is, there shouldnt be ANY that sound better. If SACD was truely at this point in time a step better than regular ol cd's there wouldnt be ANY ARGUMENT from anyone, but there is because presently SACD hasnt shown what is supposedly capable of. There are a few SACD's that did sound better, but like I stated, alot of that is the recording process.

Jade: Let my comments stick. Let the record show that I have also had quite a few different high end CDP's and DAC/Transports to do direct comarison with SACD players.

Doing comparisons with SACD players were done through 2 preamps I owned at the time last summer including the Adcom GFP-750 and the Pass Labs X2. Neither of these preamps color the sound in any way. And if your stating that a good quality preamp can change the test results for the SACD players I had vs. a few cd players(some used digital volume control, some actually went through the same Preamp), then you are simply driving my point home further.

SACD has yet to really seperate itself as being "better sounding" than redbook. And this is the whole point. THen you add to the fact how lethargic the format is evolving, add the very limited library available and you have a doomed format. As for universal players some people speak about. I would be open to one, but I have yet to find many(maybe one or 2)that perform excellent on all formats.

Well Little_milton, we as audiophiles should not underestimate the effect masting engineer (is that right word?) has on the final product. Most (I inclided) would argue his impact is more profound than the end media technology (in this case SACD vs. redbook).

My $0.02

Points taken Ritteri. But I still feel SACD is a nice niche format, even if it isn't going anywhere. Maybe I'll have to try a high end redbook player some time. Even still I think my low end SACd player does enough stuff correctly to warrant keeping it and building a library. I will likely get a better SACD player at another date. Thank you for responding.

Ritteri, before I start, know that I'm not disrespecting you, the person outside of this discussion at all, it's just your highly flawed and what could be seen as deliberately misleading "arguments" that I'm having problems with in your posts, nothing more. I'm just letting you know how your comments appear to the half-way intelligent reader:

"As for companies getting on the SACD bandwagon, after 4 years since its introduction there are probably still less than 3-4 dozen players total. MOST are from Sony and Philips, and that is a poor sign....Do you know how many companies had CD players out 4 years after the introduction of CD???? HUNDREDS."

That's complete B.S.. Nice story, however. Seriously, what are you talking about here? Please feel free to back this one up. If you're going to BS people at least don't make it so easy for people to call you in yet another untruth....

"Its well known that SACD isnt going anywhere (BS). If anything should take off its going to be DVD-A which I feel is a better format to grow for future sound improvements (more BS). As for my "Betamax" analogy, its based on the fact that your not going to get many SACD's released (BS really flowing now). After 4 years how many SACD's are there? A few hundred (completely uninformed BS here).WHo released most of em? Sony. (yet again, way off base)."

I see what's going on here, finnally! Don't know how I missed it originally, it was evident from the get go. You're a DVD-A fanatic with sour grapes! You see near 2,000 SACD titles full of excellent musical material and have ~600 piss poor DVDA titles to choose from, to play on only a handful of audiphile caliper machines and get defensive. You see the horrendous upcoming release list for DVD-A next to the exciting list of promised and current SACDs, the lack of backwards compatibility, the need for a tv monitor in your system, the nonexistent audiophile or customer enthusiasm and get even more defensive when folks bring these fact to light or even mention that "other" format.

That a given format is not prospering is no reason to take the event as a blow to the ego, it's not personal, just business, as the saying goes. To make up complete BS stories like those above to deliberately delude people into following in your cause and presumabley bolster the ego isn't a pretty thing, not good for ones self or others. Seen this story before, too many times, actually. It's all about music, regardless of the gear or software, let's not forget that. Where all in this for the music, hopefully, and not for back-pats or otherwise complete circle-jerks of like-minded folks with the gear/format/software that we found to have more MUSIC to our liking....

I'm done, there's nothing worth arguing over here. I'm sorry to have been involved, as I'm sure most everyone else saw this coming and I was too nieve to see it....this time, at least.