Do cables really need "breaking in"?

I guess that my post was pretty harsh. The point that i was trying to make is that many "educated" individuals try to pass off their limited electrical / electronic knowledge and experience as being "all-knowing" and "factual". The only problem with doing this is that they may have never specifically worked with / researched the area that they are talking about. They talk out of their hats based on "book knowledge" and by doing so, they present their PERSONALLY UNVERIFIED OPINION based on hear-say and what seems like "logical deductions" to them as "fact". They then try to wrap it up by using specific buzzwords and / or presenting credentials which would tend to lend credibility to their statements. Yet with all of their "techno-babble", they have never taken the time to actually test their own "theories" to see if they hold water.

It is to those people that i say "put up or shut up". It takes NO talent to repeat what someone else told you or to further promote myths and legends. FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF and THEN present your case. At least you'll have personal experience and a working knowledge of the subject before spouting off about what is / isn't "possible".

I have no problem with someone presenting a point of view as that: a point of view. I do however have problems with someone claiming that something is impossible and / or foolish, especially when they are personally lacking in first hand experience / knowledge in that area. If one is going to pass on information that was passed onto them, it should be noted as such. A link or reference to the source of such information can sometimes clarify or aid our understanding of what one is passing along. Otherwise, i assume that one is speaking from first hand experience and / or has direct knowledge of the subject at hand. NOT running off at the mouth and telling us that things that measure alike all sound alike. As you and i all know, that simply isn't the case. Nor is this the only thread that takes a similar stance.

This post and my prior one in this thread are NOT directed at any specific individuals. If you feel singled out, i'm sorry and appologize. I still stand by my statement of "put up or shut up" though. People are looking for "real world" comments from people that have tried / experienced these things for themselves. Those results could be "good" or "bad", either way. They want to hear it directly from the "Horse's mouth", not what was echoed out of the other end.

Having said that, would YOU want to base your decisions on information from someone that had no personal experience in that area ? You might find their comments helpful or offer some form of insight, but you would also want to know that they themselves were not speaking from experience. Sean
>

I meant to say "saying 'put up or shut' to someone" or "telling someone to 'put up or shut up'" was rude. Still is, even after the apology.

I was just thinking how nice it was to have two recent threads, do cables sound different and how do you a/b cables, wherein some people could say "DBX" and other people could say "Cable X floats my boat and Cable Y sounds like mud,' and nobody called anyone else an idiot or a fraud. At AA, you cant say "DBX." And at Audioreview or rao, you can't say you like one cable better than another without being subjected to ridicule.

For a trained ee to say "wire is wire and I'm going to use 12 gauge stranded or Romex, and you are all wasting your time" is a perfectly valid point of view. He isnt trying to sell you anything. He's trying to save you some money and maybe debunk what he considers to be a fraud on the consuming public. You don't have to take his word for it. Go play with cables. And he doesnt need to waste his time playing with cables to test his learning. If you want to do that, as I have, that's fine too.

Now, if that ee says you're an idiot or a fraud, that's different. That's not nice either.

The other issue is the words people use around here to describe what they hear from their components and cables, and from "burning-in" cables, are marketing words learned from the trade (and yes, I include the "reviewers" for the buff mags as part of the trade). The more I hear, the more I want to go down to the hardware store and buy some zipcord.

My wife and I are both EE degreed engineers, myself at baseband, she at RF. I am open minded to many audio concepts, but not when the proponents use only their own stories of "how they heard it themselves" rather than a logical/technical explanation, perhaps backed up by repeatable measurement data.
Those who think that hearing trumps all are overlooking the fallibility of the brain and subjective measurements, couple with power of suggestion and "wishing it to be true".
I'm not saying you don't hear a difference, just that the difference may be in your own head or may be attributable to other sources (e.g. disconnecting and reconnecting oxidized connections).

But the bottom line is that we should not attack others ... if you believe something makes a difference go with it and be happy. If not then save your time and money and be happy. Remember guys it's all just opinions.

I too am an engineer who likes to "see the data" but in audio, there is more than one way to take data. I get real tired of people who scoff at the idea that the ear can be a meaningful measurement tool and insist that it be backed up with electrical data before pronouncing the effect real.

The ear/brain combination is a GREAT measuring tool for judging relative differences. For example, if I were to play a sinewave below 100HZ to somebody and then a 1KHZ signal, and while no audiophile may tell me exactly what frequencies I played, I'll bet every audiophile on this planet could hear a DIFFERENCE between the two signals.

What we were talking about here were the DIFFERENCES that burning in makes in the SOUND, not the measured electrical differences.

You don't need electrical measurements to hear an effect.

By the way, when I typed Sean in my previous post, I meant to respond to Seandtaylor.

Every time that one of these threads go up there's always a big controversy. If you don't want to believe it then don't, it's your loss. I used to be with the objective crowd too, being an EE with audiophile inclinations, but I ignorantly refused to believe anything about cabling, tweaks, etc. All I had to do was quit arguing & try listening; *wham* I'm now a subjectivist to the n'th degree. Don't worry about the spec's, the measurements, the proofs of performance. Just listen; that's what this is all about anyway - remember?