Are subwoofers worth the trouble?

Thanks guys for all your input. The sale of the REL didnt materialize but I did stumble upon the website for the ACI Titan. They will allow an in home trial and will pay shipping both ways if I decide to return it for the cost of $799. Any opinions? Thanks again. Emil

Are they worth the trouble? In this man's opinion, yes! For me, I feel, there is so much information below 40 hertz, the lower limit of my system without a sub-woofer, that is important for the recreation of the hall's sound and the original music event. Is it difficult to set up? At times it can be with some systems and some rooms. My experience has been that it is no more difficult than appropriately setting up a balanced two channel system. Which means, if you read between the lines, it is a passionate effort. As for continually adjusting your sub-woofer; Once I have it dialed in I leave it alone. I believe my ear to be a good tool. However, that can very depending on the software you use. That is why I always use warble test tones and a meter. A good place to start is with Stereophile's test disk and Radio Shack's meter. Of course the accuracy of the meter is questionable at the lower extreme's, 35 hertz and down, but you can adjust for that within its variance or deviation from flat. Using subjectivity and measured objectivity has always afforded me great sound and accurate recreation. I wouldn't give up the lower extreme's for the world. It will have to do until I can afford a full range system as balance as my present system. As for the above comment about dialing it in until you hear it. Frankly, I never can hear my sub-woofer. It always appears to me as if the sound is coming from my main speakers. And, if there is zero information below 40 hertz within the recording, it sounds that way. However, when the information is there, well, then that's why it is worth it.

Kacz is far more objective than the rest of us, so by all means, follow his "one sided" view closely. I was just trying to give the best advice too...It's not as if Emil was describing an inept subwoofer (REL), as Kacz suggests. The FREE in-home trial period for the ACI sounds great to me. I've not heard that one, but as long as it's fully adjustable, it should work great. And it doesn't take much longer to get the sub right than it takes to get the left/right speakers in the right place without a sub...only with the right sub, you don't have to trade off bass for imaging, as with a "full range" speaker. You do need ASC traps to get the best out of either, though. Just ask anybody at any hifi show or exhibit, or any reviewer for that matter. Those that don't use them are wasting theirs, and everybody else's time, IMHO. "There is no way you would ever need a sub," blah blah...Only a handful of speakers don't need subs, and they are costly, and no better than a great speaker with a great sub.

Hi everybody, Hope i'm not too late to offer a bit of help. I just bought a rel Strata II and if you go to www.rel.net you can locate amazing reviews of the REL sub. The Robert Harley review says it better than I can. EVERY single word of that review is accurate. I use Monitor Audio M14s' which have a gold tweeter that has very high extension but can sound harsh unless balanced by the lower frequencies. The REL sub connected to the speaker mains is the way to go. I found out about REL by chance. I was listening to Vienna Acoustics speakers at Harvey Sound in NYC and stepped into another room where Sonus Faber Concertos' wre being set up. Certainly this is a good speaker but when they added the REL to it everything jumped to life. I have always hated subs. BOOM, BOOM , BOOM, BOOM, you know what I mean. This was totally different. The sub was in perfect time with the mains and added dimension, weight and detail to all the frequecies. I set mine at 49 Hz, with volume set at a level that you do not notice the sub at all until some very low frequencies are hit, and you are fooled into thinking that your mains have awesome depth. This is the only way I have been able to approach the effect of higher end speakers at a resonable cost. If you are interested I love the REL so much that I would sell mine for $950 in order to buy it again in a wood finish instead of black. Keep us posted as to what you decide. BTW Carl, do you know if the Strata II can be set up from the mains and from the LFE channel at the same time so that if you were watching a movie you get the 5.1 mix with LFE and when listening in stereo still get the main speaker outs from your amp? Even if this is possible, is this a good idea? Good luck Emil!

I'm in full agreement with you about subs, BMP. I don't have the REL, I have the Sunfire. The Velodyne HGS-15 is my dream sub. As for your question, I suppose if the sub has line level as well as speaker level inputs, and can togle between the two based on whether it senses a signal or not, it would work. You'd need to try it first. I don't see it being difficult to do. AND YOU ARE SO RIGHT ABOUT BOB HARLEY!!!! He isn't always at his best (who is?), but his body of authoring work is truly the best in the world (with most of his reviews being better and more important than even his CGTHA book...the original Wadia 27 review in a 1996 SPHL is maybe the best review ever!!! And I don't even prefer any of Wadia's products right now...). I put Atkinson second, and Fremer a very very close third. Fremer knows how to review anything, not just vinyl; and he knows how to listen to an audio system. (He feels as we do about subs.) These guys are my audio heroes, whatever shortcomings they may have. I'd love to make friends with any of them sometime...I'm one of many who would.