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Our home system: How good it is?

My music sound philosophy/reference is the live music/event that unfortunately I can’t mimic on my system or in any other audio system that I heard. I always say that the very best we can achieve is to be nearer to the recording and even this target is a little “ elusive “ to get for say the least.

Through my audio life I heard a lot of different audio systems: I heard it on audio shows, on dealer rooms and on home people’s systems.

With out any doubt the best audio system performances that I already experienced were/are on home systems where I learn several subjects ( including the people music sound priorities ) and one-two of them are the in deep care in the SET UP of each link on the whole audio chain ( including room ). Some of high price systems that I heard it are not very good because its “ lesser “ care on the each link SET UP.

I want to share with all of you my latest experiences that I had 2-3 weeks ago when I visit some audio friends on USA.
I was exposed to 7 different home systems and I share with you my thoughts on only 4 of those home audio systems that I consider have nothing less but top/first rate performance and where I really enjoy the music.

First than all I want to say that all those audio friends were very gentle and with a very high sense on hospitality: thank you in deep to every one for that I really appreciate it in every way including your very value time that you take/give me.

The best subject during my visit to each one of those great people was to know/meet them: meet people with an in deep knowledge on music ( music lovers more than hardware lovers.), with in deep audio experiences, with in deep know how on their each priorities, with in deep care on whole room-system SET UP, with a great software, with an open mind to share and to accept different points of view, with in deep understanding that there are no perfect systems, with a “ humility “ attitude that it is a must to have to grow-up and with the enjoy “ feeling “ of music listening.

This was a very rare opportunity that I enjoy it and that I know I was so lucky about: Thank you again to all of you!!!!

In no order of preference here it is:

HOUSTON: Fred’s place with a dedicated audio room. Acapella big Triolon speakers, Einstein front end electronics, Rockport/Titan i analog rig, Nordost, JC-1s amps, etc.

When the first music note comes from this system you know that it is something special and after a few minutes you forgot about the hardware and start to enjoy fully the software ( either analog/digital ).
The system is so easy to transmit the music “ feelings/emotions “ and let that the sound/music flow directly to your mind.

Those Triorlon are really great and my hat off to Acapella people because they blend three different speaker drivers in an almost perfect mix. I don’t like ( but the immediacy ) horns ( I heard many of them ) and the Triorlon’s has two of them in the midrange frequency range and I have to say that these horns are the lower horn-signature that I ever heard, the mid bass/bass are moving coil drivers and the Plasma tweeter is ( probably ) the speaker star but with out saying “ I’m here “, like I say almost perfect driver blend.

BOISE: Steve’s place with a dedicated audio room. MBL 111 speakers, custom made Berning’s monoblock amplifiers, Technics SP10 MK3 with a Steve self design/build gorgeous plinth with Schroeder Reference tonearm and strain gauge cartridge/front end by Soundsmith and Lyra Olimpos.

This was my three time that I heard MBL speakers and my first time on a home system: what a difference!!!!, these system/speakers are so near the real music that, like in Fred’s system, the only think that you want is to hear music and more music: LP after LP and again!!!!

Those custom made amplifiers are very good match to the MBL’s and has the lower coloration of tube-signature amplifier I ever heard. I know that the MBL speakers are not easy/friendly with tube electronics and in this system everything is on target, of course that Steve’s hand on this count a lot for that.

I experienced here two different quality performance sound: the Soundsmith one ( that is good ) and a MC cartridge one. I have to say that the Soundsmith rig was only 20-30 hours from new and even Steve was “ playing “ with the set-up. Anyway IMHO that day the Lyra quality performance was way better and I enjoy it for many hours. With this MC cartridge things ( great things ) come out specially the non-sense audio system: disappear!, I had only the LP music performance: great performances.

DALLAS: Louis’s place with a dedicated audio room. Kharma Exquisite 1A speakers, CAT’s monobloks ( new ones: 30 hours on it. ), Lamm/Aesthetix front end electronics, Garrad 301/Triplanar/Xv-1and Technics SP-10MK3/SME/Air Tight both with a custom made wood plinths and the 301 with a custom made power supply.

First thing you note at Loui’s place is that huge room, the biggest I ever know ( maybe 2.3 times the Steve or Fred ones that are big. ) in a home stereo system.

Here I think that the stars are those 550 pound each speakers and its room good integration ( not an easy task ). Like the other systems this one is different but really good. This is my second time hearing Kharma speakers and I have to say that are very very good performers.

The whole sound is a refined/sophisticated one where you or anyone are asking for more, not more quality but more time to heard/hear and enjoy music. I was surprised by the 301 rig quality performance ( where I know very well the XV-1 quality. ): first rate, I can’t hear any coloration that I can/could say: “ that’s was the 301 “.

As good as I heard that system Louis told me that through his Lamm amplifiers ( SE 15-18 watts ) the quality of the system’s sound is a step higher!!, unfortunately I can’t hear it with these amplifiers. Anyway a pleasure to hear it on the Cats.

SAN DIEGO: Mark’s place with out a dedicated audio room ( the system belongs to the sitting room ). Revel speakers, Threshold amplifier, Hovland front end electronics and Raven/Triplanar/Ruby 2.

It seems the “ modest “ system on the group but a top quality performer where we know immediately the very hard work that Mark made to achieve that high quality performance. I know very well the Ruby 2 and in this system is something to hear.
Here there is no single “ star “ but a very good set up of audio items group that sounds a lot better that some very high price systems that I heard, money means nothing at all with out whole/overall knowledge.

As different as are all these audio system all them share common things: system whole synergy, when you heard it you know everything is there ( soundstage, good tonal balance, inner detail, transparent, fast response, dynamics, etc, etc, ), nothing is telling you “ I’m here “ ( very well balance ), sounds good with different kind of music and at different SPL levels, you can heard it for many hours and enjoy every minute, etc, etc.

Are these audio system “ perfect “ ?, certainly not: nothing is. Their owners ( all of them ) already know that they have “ land “ to improve and more important that this fact is that all them know where to improve.

Something to “ ask “ to these systems?, well as you know I’m for full range ( octave to octave ) audio systems and if I put really exigent then I can say that all these system “ miss “ the last bass octave/half octave. This bass octave is system/room dependent and speaker design specification dependent: non of those speakers were designed to achieve that low bass frequency range with the same high quality of the other frequency ranges.
Anyway I can say that I never feel the necessity of that bass octave during all those many hours of music pleasure hearing all those audio systems.

It is a nice thing to learn, through other home audio system listening experiences, if what we have at home is in the right “ road “ and this fact help all of us to grow up in the quest of home audio music sound reproduction heaven.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas
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rauliruegas OP
12,780 posts
 
Dear Elinor: +++++ " Of course, the most important ingredient is the "musical ear" that is used to judge and choose the equipment. Unfortunately, that is the key ingredient that cannot be purchased at the audio store but it is the final ingredient that gives a system its tonality and ultimately its sense of realism... " +++++

You put the finger on the ulcer/sore. It does not matters how high price is your system, which top names has your links system, which experiences do you have, etc, etc, if we don't have an educated/cultivated ears we can't grow up and this subject ( personal characteristic ) is very elusive more that we can think about and ( like you say ) something that we can't buy .
It is a matter not only to have " educated ears " but good ears that can discern on soun quality performance and that can detect in-accuracies elsewhere the audio system.
The person that I already refer on some subject can't heard/hear differences on 1-2 db in his phono stage between gain channels obviously this kind of people have a very hard time to conform/set-up a good system quality performance.

Educated ears/good ears are a must to have to enjoy in full dimension the music and not only " lifeless sound ".

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
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rauliruegas OP
12,780 posts
 
Dear Goldeneraguy: I agree totally with you on all those different subjects.

IMHO I think that like in other knowledge disciplines in audio exist a " learn curve " that all of us not only must pass through but in some ways is endless and all of us are in between that " learn curve ".

Many times we want to grow-up and changing audio links we think we are growing up when in reallity ( example ) sometimes we made two back steps: to understand this fact is very important because if we don't note that back step it is almost impossible to be on the right learn-curve " road " .

All our mistakes are a very important part of that learn-curve as the good decisions.
Where we are ( what we think ) is not so important like where really we are ( for what we think and what other think about ), I think that when what we think goes/even where we really are not only confirm that we are in the right " road " but give us true confidence to drive us in that learn.curve to achieve more steps foreward on our system quality performance improvement.

I like that learn-curve and I try every subject orthodox or un-orthodox to grow-up trying not to loose my music sound audio targets.

Anyone can say: I'm done, my learn-curve finish, I can't say it but if you anyone can say it please share with us.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
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rauliruegas OP
12,780 posts
 
Dear Goldeneraguy: +++++ " I have been guilty of all the above and only after many years and finally a cohesive system..... " +++++

me too, as I posted we must pass through the " learning curve ".

Now, there are mistakes because non know-how and there are mistakes with know how about, as we grow up on the " LC " these ones are the ones where when we fix it permit to grow faster and with confidence about.

I remember some of the non know how mistakes that I made over time, examples: I use not two but four loudspeakers in front of me, sometimes two of them out of phase ( or something " crazy " ) sometimes two of them at the rear of my room. On those times I use two equlizers ( Soundcraftsman and MXR in cascade ) and one DBX expander that sometimes I put between the eq.'s, sometimes before them and sometimes after them!!!!, I'm not only bi-amping my system but tetra-amp ( four amps each side ) with four different amplifiers!!! ( big, big mistake. )

In those old times things were more " easy " ( because that non know how ), I don't worry about tonearm/cartridge resonance frequency, about step-up transformers, about cartridge compliance or output level, about TT mats or clamps, about special power cords or IC and speaker cables, about system racks, about room treatment or seating room position, about amplifier output impedance, about distortions/colorations, about tube or SS technology, about footers or vibration systems, about DD or BD TT, about cleaning LP's other that D'washer, about VTA/SRA or Azymuth, about RIAA accuracy, about and about and about.... etc, etc., like I say it: " more easy " audio life, do you remember?

The in deep know how has a " price " a high one that we have to pay where the reward always is/are well worth it.

My learning curve is exactly that: a learning one till today!!!!!

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
gregm
3,395 posts
 
In those old times things were more " easy " ( because that non know how ), I don't worry about tonearm/cartridge resonance frequency, about step-up transformers, about cartridge compliance or output level, about TT mats or clamps, about special power cords or IC and speaker cables, about system racks, about room treatment or seating room position, about amplifier output impedance, about distortions/colorations, about tube or SS technology, about footers or vibration systems, about DD or BD TT, about cleaning LP's other that D'washer, about VTA/SRA or Azymuth, about RIAA accuracy, about and about and about.... etc, etc., like I say it: " more easy " audio life, do you remember?
Raul, your post makes me nostalgic. I remember it being a time for discovery and very exciting at that! Even though I was experimenting with support & "vibration control" etc etc...
It was also a time when finding out about new equipment, let alone trying it out, was not easy. We would gather together and audition new stuff -- it was an event not to be missed!
elinor's avatar
elinor
275 posts
 
Raul,

A few years ago I was talking to another audiophile at a show. We were discussing gear we had heard during the day and he mentioned a new and pricey cd player he had recently purchased. It became clear during our conversation that he believed the new player in combination with the rest of his system recreated music equally to a "live" event. I was not surprised that he actually thought this to be true. I told him what I told you when you visited me. When the Vienna Philharmonic plays in Carnegie Hall and I attend a couple of concerts, it is tough to listen to my audio system the next day. After a day or two, my ear forgets the "greatness" of the live event and my system sounds good once again. It has become obvious to me that too many audiophiles are listening to their systems in a "recreation vacuum" with too little time spent in the presence of the real thing and I suspect that many well intentioned manufacturers are doing the same. My current system is very satisfying to many people who listen to it, but so too were the systems I owned over the years which were "cheap" and far less sophisticated by comparison. This has been true I suspect because they made the "recreation" of the real event sound like the real thing in a convincing way. It isn't the dollars spent, it is the care with which they are spent with regard to recreating the real event that makes the system. I am convinced of this and I have been harping on it for nearly 40 years.

Mark
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