My digital front end outdoes my analog.....


For the first time ever my analog setup is being outdone by my digital front end. The equipment: digital-MF Trivista SACD
analog-Thorens TD-125 w/Rabco SL8E linear tracking arm/Grado Master reference (4.0mv) YS Audio Concerto plus with Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7's. The sound: Overall fairly similar with that usual superior analog HF response. The image and seperation are way better on the CDP, this is my biggest issue. Better, but less so, are bass response and dynamics on the CDP as well. I love vinyl and always have and will. The tonearm is set up great and the thing tracks perfect. VTA perfect. I have it only two feet from the left speaker and it doesn't even think of feeding back. I can jump on the floor and the woofers don't move so it is so well isolated. The table/arm seem fine. Here are problems I see:
1)Lower end phono pre (so what do I need to spend)
2)Rewire TT from cart to interconnect as the tonearm is 30 years old
3)As a passive line stage user I need a very low Z ballsier phono stage. The current unit is 54db gain with an output impedence of 1000 ohms. The Trivista CDP's output impedence is 50 ohms (this could be the bass issue since I use a passive linestage)

Vinyl will never have the place for me it once did since so few new releases are on LP. I have most of the vinyl and out of print vinyl not on or never released on CD that I desire to own (based on what I like)
I do love playing with vinyl and shopping and finding it as well. Thoughts welcome-thanks in advance

ET
electroid
Definitely agree with Nsgarch's post.

But also for me, it's not a question of comparing "image and separation" or "dynamics". I don't think there's really a valid argument that even the highest end TT can equal digital's measurements in those respects - because you just can't cut into vinyl without using compression and radical equalization, nor can you play vinyl back without encountering crosstalk or some amount of mistracking in complex passages.

Obversely - the most expensive digital rig can't possibly add back in the resolution that was lost in digital encoding.

To some people, the "magic" of ultra-holographic imaging or blow-your-hats-off dynamics are the cat's meows - which is fine, and Digital is great for them.

But for me, the bottom line is sitting there listening to the music, and I just physically can't stand listening to the vast majority of CD's anymore - don't know why and don't really care. If they upgrade the resolution of digital media significantly, perhaps it may start working for me.

But of course, let's not forget that lp's will always be more fun.
To Nsgarch -thanks for the reply. You wrote: The cartridge is a hi-output, moving iron device hardly in the same league as your MF player, and God-knows what kind of ancient tonearm cable is coming out of your Thorens, which is no doubt badly in need of a new idler wheel to keep wow and flutter within bounds.

The tonearm has RCA outs of its own which are not part of the Thorens which is belt drive with a new belt. As you can see in my post my issue is mostly image and soudstage and less so the bass. The passive linestage is probably the reason on the bass issue. I have a VPI cleaner and about 800 records. I guess there is no majic pre for $2K and a cable upgrade from cart to pre that will make me happy. The wood body Grado is $800 retail but from a former MC rig I know thats where I want to be. I just couldn't find a pre with enough gain and output to support my passive linestage which is the best thing with my Trivista. Maybe I should try the Trivista phono pre.... anybody have one?

ET
It takes so much more investment to get great Analog then it does to get a great digital, alot of folks fall out of vinyl for this very reason phono stage and re-wire may do the trick.
ET, sorry, I guess I was thinking you had a 124. Anyway, here's what I'd recommend:

1.) First, check the capacitance spec. for your cartridge and make sure you have it correct by adding the default YS capacitance to the cable capacitance and then adding additional capacitance to the phono preamp if necessary to achieve the specified capacitance for that cartridge. (This is very important for MM carts., and I think it applies to moving iron as well -- double check. It does not apply to MC carts.) If you want to keep the Rabco and TT, you might want to consider some new improved phono cables for the Rabco. Also, you'll get better bass (with that light platter) if you replace the springs with sorbothane pucks or domes (which is what they would have used in the first place if sorbothane had been available.)

2.) Keep the cartridge and sell the arm/TT together. I suspect however that your negative experience w/ MC cart. had to do with the (possibly incorrect) selection of the MC cartridge itself and/or its setup (i.e. proper cartridge loading -- you absolutely can't use 47K ohms with .2mv - .85mv MC cartridges!) Your YS with 54dB of gain has more than enough gain for any MC cartridge between .6mV and .85mV (like a van den Hul Frog for instance) But you'd have to have YS install the proper loading since the Concerto apparently doesn't provide for user adjustments.

If you want to try a quick fix (for the bass and image) lose the springs and replace them w/ sorbothane. And if you don't have one, get a good record weight to add mass to the platter and couple the record to it better. I'll bet those two things alone would make a big difference.

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It takes so much more investment to get great Analog then it does to get a great digital, ....

That may very well be your opinion, but it is not a fact.