Teres, Galibier and Redpoint

Doug, I thought of you and Paul right off the bat when I heard the pacing of the 380. Sorry to give you the bad news, but you guys need to start saving your spare change for this one. I would say the difference easily surpasses the differences between Nick's pre/phono and the Aesthetix gear by an order of magnitude. Chris has a pot on the controller to vary the torque so we had to play with that. It was very easy to hear the effect that excess torque had on the leading edges. All of us agreed that he should have that adjustment on the finished controller, perhaps with a much smaller range of torque adjustment. The 380 was about the same size as a 320. I wish I had remembered to take a few pictures although it is probably better that I didn't because Chris is not happy with the look. But,hey, it's a prototype. I believe it weighs around 120#.

Andrew, SirSpeedy is correct in that we did compare the Triplanar with a DPS. This is just my opinion, but I would go with the Triplanar for no other reason than it is much easier to adjust. The Schroeder is very well thought out and elegant in it's simplicity. Thom was able to tweak the DPS with the Dynavector so that it was very close to the same sound as the Triplanar/Dynavector. It did seem that the Schroeder was not quite up to controlling the edge attacks with piano stikes, but Thom and I both think that it could be done with some diligence in tweaking. The Universe did seem to lack a little dynamically compared with the XV-1s on the same arm. But I heard a very different result latter on at CB's open house. Now, if someone wants to wait for a Schroeder just be aware that the lead time is much greater than it used to be.

Another observation concerning the ZYX Universe. I realize that the arm used has a great deal to do with the outcome, but any talk of the Universe being somewhat slow or rolled-off is not what I heard at all using CB's Reference. This combo was also mounted on the torque monster 380. I can't explain why the Universe I heard at Thom's seemed to lack some dynamics. It could be that it is a better match with the Ref or it could be that the increase in torque unlocks the transient response. The Dynavector gives the Zyx a good run and costs good deal less.

Dan,

The 320 and 380 are about the same size? Egad! You'll have to help us out my friend. I just mailed Nick some RatShack resistors for your new preamp and suggested he wire it with lamp cord, instead of that exotic stuff he normally uses. He thanked me for a great cost-control idea and - here's the good news - he's splitting the savings with me. Woo-hoo! We're on our way to a 380! ;-)

Interesting differences you heard between Thom's UNIverse and Chris's. If Thom's was set up on a DPS while Chris's was on a Ref, that alone would cause dynamic differences. The Ref has more powerful magnets. In our direct comparisons at Cello's it had more stability on big dynamic hits and a lower noise floor on trailing edge decays. The DD table probably contributed also, as you said.

It's my humble opinion that of the 4 permutations we wanted to listen to on Saturday, the one we didn't get to (Triplanar/ Universe) is the best combination for the Universe. Please see my comments below about mass matching caveats, and the fact that my Ebony Schröder Reference has an 18 gram effective mass.

Everything I've heard tells me that the attributes of the Triplanar and Universe is a match made in heaven. Given that no component is perfect, I'd say that both Triplanar and Dynavector are slightly stronger in "incisiveness factor", while Schröder and ZYX are slightly more about tone color.

Now, the ZYX is fast, and the Dynavectors have tone, so don't take the above comment to the extreme. Realize that this is a broad, sweeping generalization as all 4 products perform to a very high level.

Only when you listen side by side will you hear a difference and will you come to a preference.

I don't know what went on at Chris' house, but I suspect that his Edgarhorns played a significant role in the different results.

I speak from experience of both of the Edgarhorns as well as of my soon to depart Exemplar horns. Before switching to my new Azzolina Audio horns, I would have considered the Edgars/Exemplars to have a correct presentation. Every other cone driver based, front-loaded horn has had tubby colorations. Not so with the Azzolinas, but I digress. Again, we're talking about 3 speaker systems that perform to the level of the arms and cartridges in question, but having said that, this is all about small but significant differences.

Rather than take a side trip into this topic, I think that this worth a rant on my Rants Page - the perilous journey into low power triodes and horns. To quote someone I once used to correspond with: "it's a long and dangerous journey ... bring plenty of milk and cookies".

So ... once again, the poor audiophile is in system matching hell - given the inherent flaws in any transducer (be it a cartridge or a speaker). If it were only more simple, we could make global proclamations. Forums like this give us the opportunity to triangulate on combinations that make magic.

Now that I have what I consider to be speakers that lend a slightly more even hand to the music, I am beginning to ponder whether an 18 gram Ebony Schröder Reference is a bit too heavy for the Universe. My ZYX has the silver base plate, BTW.

After CES, and at Frank's suggestion, I tried to see if 18 grams was the upper limit for the Universe. I increased it by employing the optional brass cartridge carrier to add 5 more grams (total mass of 23 grams). This slowed things down.

Perhaps 12-15 is truly the magic spot for the Universe? Unfortunately, I don't have a Jacaranda or Bocote version to play with, but Dmailer's Jacaranda arm / Universe combination would point toward this (15 grams) being the true upper limit for optimum performance.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Thom, I may be completely butchering which model Schroder you were using. I thought that only the DPS had the VTF wheel on the back of the weight but I admit that I'm not really familiar with the differences in Frank's arms.

Doug, leave Nick alone, dammit! :)

It's my humble opinion that of the 4 permutations we wanted to listen to on Saturday, the one we didn't get to (Triplanar/ Universe) is the best combination for the Universe. Please see my comments below about mass matching caveats, and the fact that my Ebony Schröder Reference has an 18 gram effective mass.

Everything I've heard tells me that the attributes of the Triplanar and Universe is a match made in heaven. Given that no component is perfect, I'd say that both Triplanar and Dynavector are slightly stronger in "incisiveness factor", while Schröder and ZYX are slightly more about tone color.

Now, the ZYX is fast, and the Dynavectors have tone, so don't take the above comment to the extreme. Realize that this is a broad, sweeping generalization as all 4 products perform to a very high level.

Only when you listen side by side will you hear a difference and will you come to a preference.

I don't know what went on at Chris' house, but I suspect that his Edgarhorns played a significant role in the different results.

I speak from experience of both of the Edgarhorns as well as of my soon to depart Exemplar horns. Before switching to my new Azzolina Audio horns, I would have considered the Edgars/Exemplars to have a correct presentation. Every other cone driver based, front-loaded horn has had tubby colorations. Not so with the Azzolinas, but I digress. Again, we're talking about 3 speaker systems that perform to the level of the arms and cartridges in question, but having said that, this is all about small but significant differences.

Rather than take a side trip into this topic, I think that this worth a rant on my Rants Page - the perilous journey into low power triodes and horns. To quote someone I once used to correspond with: "it's a long and dangerous journey ... bring plenty of milk and cookies".

So ... once again, the poor audiophile is in system matching hell - given the inherent flaws in any transducer (be it a cartridge or a speaker). If it were only more simple, we could make global proclamations. Forums like this give us the opportunity to triangulate on combinations that make magic.

Now that I have what I consider to be speakers that lend a slightly more even hand to the music, I am beginning to ponder whether an 18 gram Ebony Schröder Reference is a bit too heavy for the Universe. My ZYX has the silver base plate, BTW.

After CES, and at Frank's suggestion, I tried to see if 18 grams was the upper limit for the Universe. I increased it by employing the optional brass cartridge carrier to add 5 more grams (total mass of 23 grams). This slowed things down.

Perhaps 12-15 is truly the magic spot for the Universe? Unfortunately, I don't have a Jacaranda or Bocote version to play with, but Dmailer's Jacaranda arm / Universe combination would point toward this (15 grams) being the true upper limit for optimum performance.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier