Differences between models of expensive vs inexpensive DACs

op

old post below, fyi - perhaps a useful summary of the topic

jjss49 2,132 posts

09-01-2020 10:44pm

as to what matters in a dac, let’s make this simple, even though it isn’t...

a) the digital (bitstream) input signal needs to be received and timed correctly for d-to-a conversion, so clock circuit and jitter reduction is key, this is done by electrical isolation, reclocking as needed

b) then the actual d to a conversion / filtering needs to happen with low distortion both in freq response and in timing (phase response) - this is done by the internal dac chip/circuit or discrete ladder network, depending on design

c) then the analog output (post conversion) needs to be prepared for output to the receiving device... this is done by internal amplifiers, or transformers, or some other method... very rarely is the output ported straight out of the dac chip (there can be impedance mismatches with preamps/amps/whatever device is to receive the signal to amplify to drive speakers/headphones you listen to)

d) all the above needs to fed clean and strong power so they do what they do without added noise, so internal individualized power supply design and quality (and power supply isolation of the analog from the digital sections) is absolutely key

so when knowledgeable people correctly say, "it isn’t just the dac chip (akm, burr brown, ess sabre, wolfson...) or the ladder chip (philips tda, etc etc) or fpga (custom circuit) that makes a difference, it is the IMPLEMENTATION of it", that means ALL THE ABOVE designed and working in concert to produce good analog sound, as a holistic system

’what goes into a dac to make it good’ class 101 now in recess

hope this helps

I have owned 3 DACs in the 5K range that sounded very different from each other, and also 4 DACs in the 1 K range or below that also sounded different from each other

@mahler123

I have owned 3 DACs in the 5K range that sounded very different from each other, and also 4 DACs in the 1 K range or below that also sounded different from each other

curious... please share which 3 expensive dacs you tried... and what front end fed them their input signal... and if you don't mind, rest of your system, for context

many thanks

Sound is analysed and understood in the field of acoustic and psycho-acoustic...

There exist a definable convergence of what and how can be defined each acoustic concept by listening experiments ....Timbre perception for example...

Then acoustic is not cooking, at some point tastes converge, because they are educated by experiments correlating objective and subjective aspects...It is true in music in general like it is true in sound experience...Preferences are not gross tastes but educated taste....

It is so true that it is the reason why my basic audio system, astoundingly good for me, is not the better systems/room possible at all...And it is the reason why and how i know the limits of my system, which is one of the best possible in the S.Q. ratio price scale, but absolutely not one of the best possible of i look at the virtual system pages here....It is my experience and experiments in acoustic that taught me that not my tastes...

My system is low cost...Optimizing a system in his three working dimensions, electrical, mechanical and acoustical transformed it completely but do not erase the difference between some other electronic design higher qualities construction and my system itself ...

But there exist a minimal acoustic threshold of satisfaction... I am there, and it is the reason why i am not obsessed anymore by any possible improving upgrade, even if i could afford them...

The dac cannot be evaluated for his S.Q. contribution alone, he must be included in the system....Dacs differ a lot like amplifiers and speakers...

They must be electrically, mechanically, and acoustically embedded together in an optimal way to be able to reveal the better acoustic qualities possible  in a specific room...It is not a taste matter but a process of acoustic optimization....

But at the end, with no limit of money, S.Q. converge to an optimal acoustic experience which differ like two Music Hall theater would differ: by acoustic characteristic related to geometry, topology, and acoustic content....

If you place an orchestra in a great hall and replaced it by an audio system in the same Hall but created for this specific  Hall, the results will converge but in these case will always differ, not mainly because of "taste" but because of the irreducible acoustic difference between , lived and play back experience...But even this difference will be suppress to a greater level and replaced by a convergent experience by a future  A.I. control  someday...

Tastes are only the first walk and the starting point in art and in science, education transform our taste in knowledge and modify them in transforming us completely... Children are not grown man.....

My tastes has been transformed in some  educated preferences and also has been modified with time...I remember when i listened Indian music the first time, Bach was more my taste....But now i cannot put Indian music over Bach anymore, Bach is my preference but it is this preference understanding that help me to appreciate Indian music and put it at the same level...It is the discovery of Indian music also that help me to understand Bach better...Preferences are not impediment to listening, "tastes" are....

Between many bad rooms, tastes will decide which one you prefer, but in the acoustic optimizing process of any room your tastes are replaced by preferences ordered by experiments and experience in the mastery of acoustic concepts...

i want to correct my sentence in the post above read it replacing over by under :

But now i cannot put Indian music under Bach anymore