How does the VPI Aries II stand up to current mid priced tables?

@bdp24
I don’t think the finish is determinative of the plastic content. What you acknowledge to be a clear acrylic platter also had a matte finish. The finish on the platters was likely due to the machining of them. They were machined for precision. They had to be more precise than the plinth. I also think that what you refer to as the "solid delrin" platter was acrylic with a lead insert at the bottom. HW commented on some of these reviews (especially on the superiority of the original acrylic-lead platter) and likely would have corrected the review if it were really Delrin, as that is a more expensive plastic, I think.

Finally, in an exchange on the Asylum HW wrote, "Changed to acrylic because I fell for the BS that the acrylic would work well with the vinyl as the impedence is similar and the vibrations would be grounded faster, quicker, and more effectively. Must admit it worked with the lead in the acrylic platter and we produced it. Made it for 18 years." and

"It is a series of compromises when making anything today. In an ideal world I would make lead filled acrylic platters from acrylic made by US manufacturers. Sadfully that is not the case and never will be again."

This is not to deny that VPI continues to make excellent products and support them as few other companies do. It does, however explain why I would not exchange my platter for anything that came later. And that’s why I made the platter recommendation to the OP.

@melm: When I used the term "solid Delrin" platter, it was in reference to not having a 2-layer construction (aluminum and Delrin, for instance). I’ve never seen the thick (2"?) black platter in person, and have suspected (but did not know for a fact) that THAT platter may have had the lead layer bonded onto its’ bottom.

The HW-19 Mk.4, Aries Black Knight, and and original TNT had that thick black platter, made of---sorry to insist---Delrin. I know Harry and lots of others used the term Acrylic interchangeably with Delrin, but I assure you the black platter material is in fact Delrin, not Acrylic.

At a big commercial plastics warehouse/machining facility in Portland Oregon I took my Aries 1 arm mounting plate into to have duplicated, and took along my aluminum/lead/Delrin platter. They confirmed that the black material was indeed Delrin. They brought out both black Acrylic and Delrin for me to look at, and the Delrin looked and sounded just like the Delrin on my Aries platter. Even raw Delrin has a completely different mass consistency and resonant sonic characteristic than Acrylic, which is inherently glossy and lower in mass. Delrin looks almost like stone, Acrylic obviously man-made.

All the long-time posters on the VPI Forum refer to the black VPI platter as Delrin, which is where I learned of the term. I really like the Delrin-topped VPI platters for their PVC/Delrin interface characteristics, and wouldn’t have a VPI without one. But there are lots of happy VPI owners with the current solid aluminum platters.

 

@bdp24

You write, "I know Harry . . . used the term Acrylic interchangeably with Delrin" And just how do you know this? He definitely knew the difference. His clamps were made of Delrin. He writes repeatedly and consistently of his acrylic lead platters as do all the reviewers. But for color his clear platters look just like the black ones. A review of his super platter here refers to its acrylic/stainless/acrylic sandwich. Where do you suppose they got that information from?

Has the rest of the world got it wrong? Believe what you wish. I’m done here.

Me too.

Okay, I changed my mind ;-) .

This is of no consequence for @ozzy62, as the Aries 2 requires a platter using the inverted VPI bearing. For the rest of you, particularly those with a sense of intellectual curiosity and a burning desire to know the truth. I offer the following:

 

Way back on 1-23-2012 an Audiogon member posted a question to the community: "Which Is The Best VPI Platter?"

 

One respondent was "brf", well-known long-time VPI enthusiast/expert and moderator of the VPI Forum: Here is his response (posted on 1-25-2012), in his exact words:

 

1- TNT 5: 1/2 Delrin and 1/2 stainless steel (mine measures 7/8" Delrin and 5/8" stainless).

2- TNT Super Platter: 1/3 Delrin and 1/3 stainless steel and 1/3 Delrin.

3- TNT 4: 2/3 Delrin and 1/3 stainless steel (I believe brf meant to say aluminum, as that is what every TNT 4/Aries 1 platter I have seen, including mine, is made of).

4- New Classic Aluminum Platter.

5- TNT Early lead and cork combinations (here brf is referring---I believe---to the 2" Delrin/lead platter found on the TNT 1 and Aries Black Knight).

6- Frosted Acrylic.

 

So the question remains: Why does the VPI website contain mentions of the black "acrylic" platter that was introduced in the Mk.2 version of the HW-19? That question I can't answer.

 

Another question that all the above raises is this: If the black platters that we are discussing were indeed made not of Delrin but instead of Acrylic, why then would Harry eventually come to the conclusion that the "switch" to the frosted white Acrylic platter (introduced on the Aries 2 and TNT 6) was a step backwards in sound quality? If the black of the earlier plastic platter was Acrylic, the "switch" to the frosted white Acrylic platter would be in color only, surely not a cause for a difference in sound quality?

 

Here''s what I know:

1- At the Groovetracer shop in San Jose, CA (makers of excellent Rega upgrade parts) I compared his black Delrin, black Acrylic, and frosted white Acrylic Rega platters. The white Acrylic platter looked just like VPI's white Acrylic platter, the black Delrin platter just like the black plastic section of the VPI Aries 1/TNT 4/5 platters I own. The black Acrylic platter looked just like the acrylic top plate of the HW-19 Mk.3 I own,  and the plinth of the various iterations of the TNT's I have seen in person. Groovetracer makes and offers both Delrin and Acrylic platters because they sound different from one another.

Here's what Groovetracer states on their website about their Delrin platter:

"Delrin is considered the material of choice for record platters by many of today's high end turntable manufactures. There are several reasons for this but the primary consideration is that it shares many of the same properties of the vinyl record (please Groovetracer: LP's are made of PVC, not vinyl ;-). It also carries more mass than the majority of high performance thermoplastics available, which is important in terms of maintaining speed stability."

"The challenge in using Delrin is that it is quite expensive in raw material form and requires extra attention during the manufacturing process."

 

2- At the plastics plant/warehouse/fabricating shop in Portland Oregon I visited a few years back, I held in my hands samples of the raw sheets of the black Acrylic and Delrin they manufacture. The two plastics were VERY different from one another, easily distinguishable. It has nothing to do with any finishing operation: the two materials have very different compositions, textures (internal and external), weight, and sonic properties.

The technical adviser looked at my Aries 1 platter, and told me the black plastic top was made of Delrin. I was deciding whether to have him fabricate an arm mounting board out of Delrin or Acrylic, and decided to go with Acrylic, as that's what VPI used.

 

So, is this horse I've been beating dead yet? ;-)