Honest Experience on Effects of Subwoofer Please


I have read countless of threads on people’s experiences with subwoofers but am still confused. Although I don’t have any experience with high quality music subwoofers, I have been using a decent sub in my audio system for the past 18 years or so. The sub went in and out of the systems and various rooms throughout the years as I was not convinced if the sub was contributing anything to the system. At times I felt I could hear an improvement and at other times I thought the sub wasn’t doing anything. If I bump up the volume and crossover frequency on the sub to hear a larger impact, it’s overly done.

I am aware that a proper set up and/or quality of subwoofer is crucial to ensure a successful implementation of the sub(s) in a system. Let’s just assume that everything is done properly.

To cut to the chase, do people hear a small or appreciable difference with subwoofers, or it’s a big night and day difference? I know everyone’s expectations are different but I’m reading different opinions and experiences on this forum. For the first time in 15 years, I am considering a sub upgrade and have been in communication with the sub maker and dealer. I just wanted to get a clearer picture on the situation.

So, coming back to the question, just two questions;

1. Do people hear a small or appreciable difference with subwoofers, or it’s a big night and day difference?

2 Do subwoofers just fill up the missing deep bass below say 40Hz or 35Hz where the main speakers won’t reproduce, or they will also augment the mid bass and upper bass by producing a punchier sound with better kick, heft and dynamics? The drums or kick drums are usually in the region of the midbass and upper bass, not low bass.

Posts like the one below taken from another thread make me confused.

 

ryder

I chased bass nirvana only to realize that what I was really missing was great midrange performance. I ended up selling my Definitive Technology ST-L speakers (towers with powered subs) and a single Martin Logan 1100x Sub.

I listen to a wide range of music: Mostly jazz, female vocalists, some live rock and blues, some country, even some electronic dance music.

I now have Harbeth 30.2 XDs with 2 REL T/9x and I'm really happy. I use the speaker level connections from my tube amp but I also use the Low level sub-cable connection from my A/V processor for TV/Movies so I get the benefit of stereo bass for my analog system and low level effects for my 5.1 surround sound system.   

A1: In my stereo pair set up the effect is subtle and depends on the recording. They add power and depth, a richness that is something you can feel. I have them located very close to the main speakers, phase is 0, crossover 38Hz (estimated, 5 clicks) and gain is 10 clicks (less then 1/3). Of course your own room and speakers will dictate these settings. I probably adjusted these 100 times before I got to the point where I didn't feel the need to fiddle with them anymore because they "disappeared". 

A2: They fill in the bottom end. The kick, dynamics etc. come from the Harbeth's amazing mid-range. They cut off at 50Hz but that does not take into consideration the room which in my case is large. 

*Most of the music is above 40Hz

*You need a stereo pair, otherwise you are summing 2 discrete channels of low frequency signal into one speaker - seems really obvious when you think about it but I was doing it wrong for a few years before a good hi-fi shop owner showed me the way forward

*I may not have bought the RELs if I was willing to buy a more powerful amp (mine is 40w pc) and large, full range speakers but in comparison, what I ended up with was a bargain and I no longer feel like I'm missing something.     

@mijostyn --

+1

Many a sub(s) implementation appear strikingly meager, malnourished and of secondary consideration in its overall implementation. I'm guessing it's that mentality again; why have a couple or further multitude of (sub-)bass behemoths lying around in the listening space when you can have all but one the size of a small cathouse?

Because it isn't only about extension, but rather, as you so rightly point out, it's also and not least about the added sensation of power and effortlessness of presentation to instill that live feel of music, including the contribution from the main speakers here when properly high-passed.

And yet, what is it about "hi-fi" that very generally turns its back on the inherent power delivery and (truer) size of music and instead relegates it to something brute, unsophisticated and undesirable? You'd certainly think that the way this vital aspect of music reproduction is sorely dismissed either (and mostly) in silence and vehement reluctance, or even downright ridicule.

Anyone can feel free to implement subs the way they see fit, that really goes without saying, but augmenting the mains run full-range with smaller subs is really only the tip of the iceberg. Perhaps it points to the need for a more radical and re-defined approach in speaker implementation that should more readily see the acceptance of DSP and active configuration, in addition to letting size of speakers and subs have its say. The latter part has been stubbornly missed out for decades, so one wonders whether it will ever find any real traction with audiophiles at large.

It seems the way it works is that if you can't go the whole nine yards with regard to physics then make it appear that not doing so is actually to the benefit of sound reproduction; indeed, it becomes a rationale in itself. 

A lot of silliness get passed around with topics like this one, and all bloviating aside, subs aren't that difficult to set up, more than one helps tame standing waves but one sounds much better than none, and don't be afraid to try 'em. I have a few older RELs (no high pass nonsense needed) bought used and they're great. 

@wolf_garcia, I hate to be a PITA (not really) but, if you think subs are easy to set up then you have not heard them done correctly. 

@phusis , When enough audiophiles hear subwoofers set up correctly, digital cross overs and all, the acceptance will grow like a snowball rolling down hill. All my audiophile buddies on hearing my system got subwoofers and digital crossovers with room correction. None of them are dyed in the wool analog guys but still.

It turns out that with the proper equipment subs are easy to set up. The computer does it for you. It measures your system one speaker at a time and adjusts delays and volumes appropriately. The only thing you have to do is select a crossover point and slope. The system I use now lets me change crossovers and slopes on the fly while I am listening which is very helpful. 

Wolf,

Thank you for the rare glimpse of common sense on an audio forum. People make so much of this stuff harder than it really is. IMO, it’s so they can feel really smart for solving the (usually non-existent) problem.