Is Rap a valid musical form?


This has been way more than the progression away from tubes to SS!

Believe the world of Hip Hop has been around and evolving for around 5 decades.

And for most of that time I have dismissed and avoided that world and its “music”.

So angry, offensive and abrasive. Just a bunch of rhythmic yelling.

I believe my former thread was titled “Why Rap?”.  Through that discussion and somewhat of an understanding that this must be a new art form that engages and entertains millions if not billions. That and a long standing belief that if a type of music or a particular artist attracts many, many fans there must be substance and quality there. Even if I personally don’t particularly like it there must be something there.

Rap and the Hip Hop world was always so foreign and culturally untouchable.

Then my Rap thread and several others at that time got me rethinking my perspective and I watched a video of a group of student performance musicians at Juilliard all exclaiming their fascination with a Rap artist named Kendrick Lemar and his “masterpiece” “To Pimp a Butterfly”. I bought the double LP. Trying to listen to it turned out to be difficult because of my old view of Rap and that of the world of Hip Hop. But it was also becoming clear that this was truly something of significant interest. However, I just listened to the two discs only once-with some difficulty.

Today, after several weeks, I hesitatingly pulled the album out again. And to my surprise and actually delight hearing it with fresh ears it grabbed me and would not let go. I immediately heard the brilliance of a multi faceted, and to me, all new experience in sound. Not unlike great 20th century or progressive Jazz it evolved from section to section with a plethora of fascinating, yes musical, experiences. Tonal, atonal, percussive, rhythmic, breathing combined with incredible, energetic tongue twisting strings of mostly unintelligible words. And not merely angry yelling.

Sure, a ton of F bombs but words that don’t flow over you like lovely other genres but invade the psyche and don’t let go. Not particularly pleasant but gripping and interesting in its complexity. Words delivered with such power and drive which acted as a rhythmic counterpoint. It was impossible to turn away or turn off. 
And speaking of turned off, the experience was the opposite of that. Stories of life undeniable human. Yes, driven by bitterness, anger and raw emotion. Impossible to  dismiss it as not deeply felt.

I do think “To Pimp a Butterfly” is unique. But I also believe that there must be much more in this Hip Hop world that has deep musical interest. Some time ago I heard Drake on SNL perform a song that was amazing though not really Rap. Rather an advanced and unconventional musical form. I hear similar musical threads throughout “Pimp”. I did get a CD of Drake. “Scorpion”. I also could not absorb it in my first listen. I look forward to the next, fresh listen. I did try to hear several YouTubes of some very successful Rap artists. They mostly lacked the interesting musical themes threaded through. “Pure Rap” with just the rhythmic words-not my cup of tea. But a musically valid form none the less.

 

 

mglik

@holmz - No seriously, in the earlier days, the band got so tired of everybody equating 'Blondie' with Debbie that they made up buttons saying 'Blondie Is A Group'.... 

@simonmoon - good that you checked it out! But does quality, enjoyable music have to be 'musically complex' or 'sophisticated'? 

Personally, that's not what I listen to music for. I've heard way too many 'virtuosos' who do not interest me even a little but cure insomnia for me very reliably! 😁

It's hard for me to care how well or with what sophistication they play their instruments if I don't like the music they play on them. Some music I love is like that; much of it is not. Nothing against it or any other genre; I don't require music to be to my particular taste to consider it good or valid. 

@holmz - No seriously, in the earlier days, the band got so tired of everybody equating ’Blondie’ with Debbie that they made up buttons saying ’Blondie Is A Group’....

When the lead singer is a stunner, it is hard to see that there is a group…

 

Old boss was telling me about his first date with his wife. They were in Santa Barbara and roller blading on the sidewalk. They passed a woman and fellow going the other way, and he said he just about fell over seeing the woman.
The (now) Mrs said, “You don’t see that every day!”
And he said, “I agree.”
She then said, “In fact I have never seen a one legged guy on skate(s).”
He said that he was surprized when he turned around and “shu-nuf” the guy was on one leg.

 

@larsman

Seems to me that criticizing hip-hop for lack of 'musical creativity' or whatever, is like criticizing a symphony because you don't like tympani - it's not the point of the music. It's about rhythm and words and the rhythm of words....

I don't understand this post.

My criticism of rap and hip-hop is for exactly the reasons you mention. There is so much more to music than rhythm and words.

Why is criticizing rap for it's main attributes not fair game? 

I criticize pop for it's simplistic chord progressions, its repetitiveness, its reliance of a simple hook, its lack of harmonic sophistication. 

And I criticize country and mainstream rock, for much he same reasons. 

 

 

@larsman 

good that you checked it out! But does quality, enjoyable music have to be 'musically complex' or 'sophisticated'? 

It does for me. Obviously, it doesn't have to be for everyone.

I get bored unless music meets most or all of the criteria* I like in music. And it's not like I made a conscious decision to only enjoy complex and sophisticated music. When I was younger, I just found myself listening to more and more complex and sophisticated music, and getting bored with popular, mainstream forms of music.

*my criteria is: very high level of musicianship, complexity, deep and broad levels of emotional and intellectual content, avoidance of 'hooks' and simple to sing along with melodies, avoidance of verse>chorus>bridge song structure, avoidance of receptiveness, 

@holmz

maybe try the group Tool?

 

I am already a fan of Tool. Not as big a fan as I used to be, but I still like them.