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Interesting experience with two very different speaker designs

I wanted to relay my experience with two different sets of speakers in hopes that it might prove interesting and/or help some folks.

My current speakers are Tekton Electron SE with a Pass XA30.5 and a MicroZOTL2 Preamp.  I was absolutely loving the sound but I started getting into the DIY open baffle thing.  I started with a very simple JE labs design with a single driver and after a few prototypes, I ended up with a 2-way using an Emminence Alpha 15 and a Tang Band W8 2145.

After breaking the DIY speakers in a bit, I was really blown away.  The soundstage was huge and very 3D.  The bass was big and warm but still pretty fast and articulate.  Also, the speed of the speakers was very apparent.  I loved them especially on big orchestral works where the soundstage really comes to life.

I lived with them for about 4 months and then I put the Electrons back.  Very interesting.  Timbrally, the Electrons were just better.  The OBs upper midrange sounded kind of flat and beamy in comparison.  The bass on the Electrons, though not as extended, was better controlled.  In some ways I found the OBs to be more transparent in that they really pointed out the flaws in some recordings.  Well recorded stuff sounded amazing but they gave no love to mediocre recordings.  The Electrons just make everything sound good. Much more forgiving.  

Going from the OBs to the Electrons, I lost some of that soundstage magic.  The Electrons, though they have some depth, lack that completely open 3D thing that the OBs were giving me.  However, from top to bottom, they just sound right.  Instruments sound like how they are supposed to sound.  That all-important midrange really shines.

Though I like both these speakers, I'm going to stick with the Tektons.  However, if what you value is speed, transparency and soundstage over timbre, I think open baffle is a good way to go.  I'll say this with the caveat that I'm not a speaker designer and there may be OB speakers out there that really get the timbre thing right too.  I'd love to hear some!
adam8179
arafiq's avatar
arafiq
1,595 posts
 
@pfiche -- 
Years of research and experience" in marketing is a major component for brand names.

Sorry but I beg to differ. Most successful manufacturers have the luxury to iterate and evolve their designs year after year, version after version. There is a lot more R&D that goes into speaker design, testing, quality assurance, etc. I'm have no doubt that DIYers can produce a decent set of speakers, but let's not kid ourselves here. A company that dedicates time, money, resources over the long haul is going to produce better designs that withstand the test of time. Most great products are a result of incremental improvements, not a one-time effort no matter how brilliant.

And I'm quite familiar with GR Research, but I'm sorry it's silly to compare him to a typical DIYer. He works on this full time and therefore has the same advantages of iterating and improving his designs incrementally as other manufacturers. 

pfiche
8 posts
 
I do not disagree with the evolving better performance with R&D  by   manufacturers, thats dedication and good business. But yes I'm silly!   I did not say GR Research was a typical DIY er. (hybrid commercial/DIY speakers) in that he offers complete kits and speaker parts to the DIYers and a whole lot of knowledge about  speaker and x-over design. And yes, that is what Danny does, is offers sonic improvements to commercial company's that have dedicated R&D year after year yet cut corners for extra profits. As you probably know, the little things can make a sonic improvements.  Non typical business plan. Thanks Danny!

Commercial speakers are sorta like Ping Putters, they are so great that they have made over 250 different models of
putters to prove that they are the GOAT putter maker.  R&D has paid off (in marketing). And some speaker company's have so many variations, you might wonder what their basic sonic goal is , other than hitting all price points, not to say they are bad, but?

And finally, I'm sorry that you consider all  DIYers speaker projects inferior  to the commercial marketing speakers. Obviously you have heard most  DIY speakers to make your conclusions Can you say JBL 100's with cheap exotic 2 capacitor x-over or the last of the  once great company Thiel. Don't forget how mixed reviews B&W  with all there R&D over many years, many like and many don't so they better than DIY.

My point is the whether it is a DIY'er or a commercial speaker label dosen't  mean it can be better or worst, most fall in between. And nothing is better than the pride of learning, discovery, educating yourself in building your system. For many it is the "hunt" that matters.
And a blind hog can find a nut now and then.

Everybody has there happy color! Enjoy your color!
adam8179 OP
66 posts
 
@pfiche and @arafiq 

I think you are both right.  arafiq, I am definitely a beginner hobbyist and I was genuinely shocked that the speakers I made sounded as good as they do.  The other OB designs I made, though promising, had serious flaws.  I would never be so conceited as to think I could out-do serious speaker designers and teams of engineers.  My soldering is sloppy, my woodworking is just passable and I always make mistakes.  Plus I don't have the necessary equipment to actually test the frequency response besides my ears!

That being said, I did my research and found designs from reputable sources who are very good at what they do and just copied them.  I will be the first one to say, I don't really know what I'm doing, but I try to find people who do and then copy what they do.  That's how I'm learning.

A more even comparison between speaker designs might be between the Tektons and say Spatial Audio or Pure Audio Project.  I'm sure they are better built and have less mistakes than what I did.

I just find it to be extremely fun to build speakers.  I learn so much.  I think there is a lot of potential there to have some really world-class sounding stuff without emptying your bank account.  The DIY OBs I built cost me around $1300 in parts and I think that's a great deal.  I'm super proud of them and I think they look great!  Are they the equal to something like a Spatial Audio or Pure Audio Project of similar design?  I doubt it.  Are they equal to a very experienced DIYer using the same drivers?  I doubt that too.

I didn't mean for the post to be a brag about how well DIY compares to established speaker manufactures.  I just thought, from my limited sample, it was interesting to judge the strengths and limitations of the box speaker vs the OB.  Obviously not all box speakers sound the same and neither do all OB so this is was not a very scientific post and possibly ill-conceived.  

Anyway, I'll continue to enjoy the music on my Tektons and also, I'll continue to make my own speakers to try to learn more!
arafiq's avatar
arafiq
1,595 posts
 
@adam8179 -- sorry, it was not my intention to belittle your achievement. You have every right to be proud of and brag about what you built. I wish I had the time, and more importantly, the talent to do what you did. 

I was basically disagreeing with pfiche's assertion that touting 'years of research and experience' is merely a marketing ploy by manufacturers. I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but by and large, most established speaker companies do invest a lot in R&D and have the budget and experience to iterate on their designs year after year. That is the value they provide to the consumers, and it is rightfully a valid marketing strategy to tout this fact.

Are there are any DIYers out there making products that can beat the usual suspects including KEF, B&W, Klipsch, Tekton, Harbeth, etc.? I'm sure there are, but I'm willing to bet that they are the exception not the norm. The whole argument is based on an outlier.
pfiche
8 posts
 
@arafiq....You are so right about R&D in most of the better manufacturers. I didn't mean to come on so strong about "ploy" deal, just my point that there are a lot of highly educated and  skilled DIYers that can design and build a very competitive product. Peace and happiness!
@adam8179, Keep enjoying your Tektons, but don't give up on your "garage speakers", keep the knowledge coming and have fun discovering. Results are a goal but the journey can be the most rewarding. DIY  is a great hobby, enjoy!

Don't worry about the woodwork, make it solid and dead, paint them black and when the lights are out, nobody else will know.
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