Vintage tubes - facts, science, technology & empirical evidence VS. marketing, myth & hype


Sorry. Long post. I hope you find the premise interesting and useful. And hope my writing below is not too bone-headed. Please feel free to correct or point out any misstatements or errors in my thinking.

This is not intended to be a controversial thread. At the outset I am not staking out a position. My questions are sincere and are not intended to poke anyone in the eye. The ultimate focus of my question has to do with the performance of vintage tubes as they compare to current production tubes. I am asking because it seems to me that there is a lot of marketing hype & perhaps some myth and wishful thinking when it comes to vintage tubes. There is also a rich body of collective experience. And, it seems, consensus that certain brands, factories, vintages and specific types of tubes are better than their peers and are "worth" the extra money they command. Of course, the principle of diminishing returns applies here. Right?

Do measures of voltage gain, transconductance, plate resistance, noise and microphony tell the whole story? Are they sufficient for predicting performance? To what extent do they predict longevity? Or is longevity primarily a function of empirical collective experience? What about the materials science aspect of vintage vs. modern tubes?

It seems that every company that produces tubes works hard to refine their design and balance innovation with "faithfulness to the vintage design", production processes, materials to make good sounding tubes. Even so, not all tubes from a given factory will perform the same, hence the testing and grading relative to the measures above and the consequent sorting into hierarchies of ascending levels of performance and price.

It also seems to me that performance will be closely tied to the circuit design and execution. A solid design would, it seems, be robust and produce excellent results with a wide range of tubes. A poor design might drive a tube in a way that is hard on the tube or requires a very specific technical characteristic for the circuit to perform well. Either of these situations could cause a user to come to completely different conclusions about what vintage/modern tube is "good" or excellent.

I have read some posts on this forum from certain individuals in which all "modern" or current production tubes or tubes produced by certain countries are dismissed out of hand. This seems like prejudice. Or it could, I suppose, reflect accumulated frustration with a given tube/brand/maker/etc as it performs in a given circuit.

I suppose I’m ultimately asking those who’ve more experience and who have invested more $$$ in tubes and tube rolling across various kinds of equipment to share their experience and opinions.

Thanks, in advance, for your patience. I hope to learn from those who are willing to share.




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When tubes were the only game in town, hundreds of millions were made and a lot of money, engineering and manufacturing talent went into producing good tubes; nothing like this kind of market remains to push current manufacturers to up their game.  

Also, what remains of tubes from the past that are highly sought after represent the cream of the crop.  These are tubes that have been tested by the collective experience of the market.  I bet that a whole lot of crappy tubes have long ago been crushed and disposed.

I currently only make use of a few tubes that are available in old and new manufacture.  I use 12AX7s in my phono stage and I prefer the older tubes (I currently run Telefunken ECC803S) and I use Western Electric 310a tubes in my linestage.  In my Audio Note Kageki amp (on loan to a friend), I did like some currently manufactured tubes, such as the EML 2a3.  The only modern tube I run in my currently operating system are two 300b (Sovtek) tubes that are used as rectifiers in my phono stage.

The rest of the tubes in my current system are all, by necessity, old tubes--Western Electric 348 and 349. 
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.

Tube rolling is kind of addictive. I find that I practically obsess about tubes. Oh. And other hi-fi kinds of options. 
I must share that I am not a tube roller, and had been quite pleased with the sound of my LTA MicroZOTL and Herron VTPH-2A stock.  I did get the urge to try some NOS tubes...I contacted BRENT JESSEE, who I found to be responsive, honest and helpful; I am MOST PLEASED with the changes.....