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AVR: Internal 2 CHANNEL AUDIO MODE. OR: HT BYPASS (external equipment for 2 CH Sources)

1. AVR, every one I had includes an AUDIO MODE for 2 CHANNEL which sends ALL signals ONLY to L & R Amps/Speakers. True 2 Channel sources, OR, ’unencode’ or ’down-mix’ surround to 2 Channels (often sounds better). Critically, surround center signal goes equally to L/R. Poorly done surround or cable created pseudo surround is ’put back together’.

or

2. HT BYPASS: separate L/R inputs direct to AVR’s L/R Amps (at full gain). You send volume controlled L/R signals (devices with their own volume control or via a preamp). (I’ve never had one, nor anyone I know).

https://hometheateracademy.com/home-theater-bypass/

In both cases, the AVR L/R amps only are driving the L/R Speakers, thus the amp’s sonic signature is the same. Using ’better’ equipment to feed the same amp?
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Why HT Bypass? Shortage of Inputs?

Blu-Ray players play CD, SACD so that’s already covered.

Aside from everything else, you need 2 remotes if you use HT Bypass (to control 2 Channel Volume).

Pure Signal? Many AVR’s offer ’PURE’ or ’DIRECT’. Many preamps offer tone bypass, i.e. Pure, Direct. Thus the preamp is simply a source selector and volume attenuator.

...............................................

IF I wanted ’better’ 2 channel equipment, I certainly would want ’better’ L/R amp(s) (most probably Tubes) so the AVR will be off and a method to get to the L/R speakers is needed.
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And, let’s not forget, the need for VIDEO (creating and maintaining L/C/R Imaging over WIDE multi-person viewing audience) is fundamentally different than AUDIO (refined/precise 2 Channel Imaging for a single listener).

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My contention: a specific speaker solution for WIDE L/C/R imaging for Home Theater, and try/use the AVR’s 2 Channel MODE for 2 channel source and force 2 channel to see if a surround source might sound better (often does). Simple Mode button, same volume, single remote.

2 Channel Music: a separate speaker type, thus a separate system.

I’ve always had a dedicated PC (even prior to HDMI) as an optional source for my HT, that’s my streamer and full net access, You Tube, Netflix, Prime etc. is on Smart TV’s now, but not in the old days. Even then, PC the source, I often find trying the AVR’s 2 Channel Mode sounds better. Audio and Video on the motherboard, no fan noise of dedicated video card.




elliottbnewcombjr
soix
8,644 posts
 
Hey Elliott, I know this is tough to grasp at first as it seems almost too good to be true, but it exists and allows us audiophiles with only one room to seamlessly blend HT and stereo systems into one and switch between them with only the push of one button (assuming you have a HT bypass input, although any unused line input on the stereo pre will work, but let’s save that for another day). And when playing critical 2-channel sources the AVR is COMPLETELY out of the signal path. Seems impossible to accomplish without having some form of extra switch or speaker cables involved, but here we are.
It’s still a case of two amps to one set of front speakers isn’t it?
No! That’d be a complete mess.
This presumes 2 separate systems, not for the budget minded.
No!!  The only thing you need to add for this to work is a stereo integrated and a pair of interconnects, and as everything is connected together I still consider this technically to be one “system” — or, maybe more accurately, a “system within a system.”  So, in my opinion this IS for the budget minded because you’re basically getting two separate systems just by adding one component (or two if you go for stereo separates).
I think both systems must be on and the separate 2 Channel Integrated always powers the front speakers. No front l or r speaker wires from the AVR. Thus the integrated sends any 2 channel source to the front
Yes!!! Ding Ding Ding (although the AVR doesn’t need to be powered on when listening in stereo). Only the stereo amp/integrated is connected to the front L/R speakers, so by connecting the L/R preouts from the AVR to the stereo pre you’re allowing the stereo pre to simply pass through the L/R signal from the AVR (when the HT Bypass input is selected on the stereo pre) that is still completely controlled by the AVR’s volume control. Everything else from the AVR remains connected and works as it was/did before. It’s deceptively simple, but it works beautifully and many among us lived very happily like this before acquiring dedicated listening rooms. Anyway, hope this is a little clearer but definitely ask away if I missed anything.
elliottbnewcombjr OP
5,111 posts
 
soix,

You were kind when I got it backwards, thanks for that. I assumed the AVR would be in control, that was my error. It's completely unaware of what's happening here.

So you start with a Stereo System, and use it for the AVR's Front Signals. I'm calling it a 'Front Stereo System'.

Thus, the WHOLE POINT of it: all FRONT content is ALWAYS thru the 'FRONT STEREO SYSTEM'.

1. AVR MUST have Front L & Front R Pre-Outs (to the separate front stereo system's HT Bypass L & R inputs).

2. no speaker wires from AVR to front speakers.

3. AVR speaker wires to the Center and Surround Speakers which are only ON in Surround Mode.

4.  'FRONT Stereo System' (integrated amp or preamp/amp combo) ALWAYS what drives the Front L and Front R speakers, via it's speaker wires. (not front center, that is driven by the AVR).

either:

a. AVR OFF: 2 Channel Music (any source) thru the 'Front Stereo System'

or:

b. AVR ON: AVR's Front Signals' to/thru the 'Front Stereo System' as part of the AVR's Audio Output (any AVR Mode: 5.1/7.1 ... Surround; Direct; 2 Channel; even forced 2 channel as I often do ...).

5. Modern equipment has 'HT BYPASS' for this specific purpose

HT Bypass uses the front system amp's full gain, thus the volume must be controlled before it enters, as it would be by the AVR volume control. Relative Balance of AVR front signals to other surround channels, once set, is maintained by the AVR, unchanged by the 'Front System'.

6. Older Stereo Systems without HT Bypass can be used this way, however the coordination of the front volume can be tricky.

i.e. My Cayin Integrated has an input labeled 'Pre-In'. It works exactly like 'HT Bypass', it sends whatever it gets via that input directly to it's L & R amps, the volume is controlled by whatever is connected. It's design is to skip it's selector and volume circuits. Works for either my McIntosh mx110z preamp, or, any AVR Front signals.

i.e. An old amp, without any kind of bypass: you can use any line level input:

BUT now there is the problem of volume integration when using the AVR.

I suppose some pencil marks could be established, coordinate 'normal' on both the AVR and the amp's volume controls, then the AVR volume would control 'more' or 'less' from that pre-coordinated start.





soix
8,644 posts
 
By George, I think he’s got it!  It’s a beautiful thing, ain’t it?
Older Stereo Systems without HT Bypass can be used this way,however the coordination of the front volume can be tricky.
Not really.  When I did it I just set the “reference” volume level on my stereo preamp at the 12:00 position when I balanced the channels using the AVR, so whenever I selected the line input on the stereo pre that was fed by the AVR I just set the stereo pre’s volume knob to 12:00 and all was right with the HT world.  The only thing was I had to remember to lower the volume on the pre when switching from HT to stereo to avoid being blasted out.  Minor inconvenience IMHO, and it has the benefit of allowing you to choose any preamp you want and not limiting you to one with an HT Bypass.  Anyway, thanks for sticking with me through this — you hung in like a champ, and it’ll surely be worth it.

big_greg
6,554 posts
 
Why HT Bypass? Shortage of Inputs?
Why?  Because of space limitations I have a combined 2 channel / home theater system.  I don't want to use the AV processor for two channel listening. 

When listening to 2 channel, it looks like this:  Source --> Preamp --> Amp --> Speakers.

The HTBP allows me to use the same amps and speakers for the front two channels.  The volume control on the preamp is disabled and the signal from the source goes to the AV processor, which controls volume, room correction, etc.

When listening to home theater, it looks like this:  Source --> AV processor --> L/R outputs --> Preamp --> Amp --> Speakers.

As the name implies, the signal bypasses the AV processor and goes to the amps/speakers with the simple push of a button, allowing you to share the amps for the front speakers between two separate systems.


elliottbnewcombjr OP
5,111 posts
 
big_greg

Now I understand HT Bypass.

Your’s is exactly what HT Bypass is intended for, thanks for the simple diagram, very easy to understand.

My (perhaps other’s?) Backwards Erroneous Assumption:

I started by assuming someone had a HT, and wanted to add better 2 channel to that system. Assuming there were speaker wires from the AVR to the front speakers, I supposed the HT Bypass was a new feature in AVR’s, that was my fundamental error.

’FRONT STEREO SYSTEM’ incorporating a ’HT Bypass INPUT’ for AVR Front L & R makes sense to my mind.

I'm old and left handed, my understanding process is not like most people.


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