2. analog
  3. 165992-104219

Turntables.....A point of diminishing returns?

   This post is sure to elicit many opinions. Everyone knows that a good audio system is a series of building blocks. Amps, speakers, cables, etc. To find the weakest block in any system can be a challenge to make a particular system sound as good as possible given the funds on hand. Almost anything can be improved upon. But, where does it end? There seems to be a point that an audio system, thru improvements, is about as good as it will sound. At least to the owner.
   No end to opinions about analog sound. Tables, carts, cables, amps, setup, and others. With all the renewed interest in vinyl, many are looking to optimize their current setup and others are content with what they have. Congrats to those. Other than looking at this as just a hobby, at what point does one just say...that's all my system is capable?
   I say this because in the audio world there is almost no limit as to how much money can be spent on equipment. If you fit into that category, I am envious. "Oh..Look at what this costs". But, as far as sound goes, is there really any tremendous benefit to spending mega dollars on equipment? I single out turntables because it's one of pieces that can demand those big dollars. One who can afford expensive tables probably has the funds for other expensive components.
   Look at this table. For $650k I wonder if it sounds many times better than the one I have.....
 http://www.dj-rooms.com/avdesignhaus-dereneville-vpm2010/

jrpnde
scchengmus
93 posts
 
Here are some “nice” turntables (for the ample-banked) 😋
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/703617141759104857/
jrpnde OP
271 posts
 
   hobo1452 is probably the only one to grasp the point of my original post...."Point of diminishing returns". That term in itself is one that is mostly based on personal opinion. At what point does one say "that's the best I can do"? There are always people who are happy with what they have and those who want more. Nothing wrong with any of them. Those wanting to constantly improve are often innovators, those satisfied with what they have accomplished are satisfied, and those that don't care. All types exist.
   This forum has provided me with very valuable info and helped me in many ways. Just wanted to hear some opinions on the subject when I hear about LARGE amounts of money spent and whether the gains are large or small. Can't fit turntables or any other single component into that question. Of course, the entire system matters. Thanks to all for your comments.

terry9
2,209 posts
 
My experience, in retrospect.

Technics direct drive: good enough. 1975
Rega 3: Good. A major improvement in every respect. 1985
Nottingham Analogue Mentor: Way better. 2000
Mentor upgrade to Wave Mechanic power supply: Well worth it. 2010
DIY air bearing with no surfaces in contact: Astonishingly better. 2017

Of course, the better the TT the more one can hear improvements in tonearm and cartridge. Bad craziness to put a Durand with a Koetsu on a Rega. IMO

YMMV
panzrwagn's avatar
panzrwagn
435 posts
 
To me answers to these kind of questions fit best on an S-shaped hysteresis curve with a few inflection points. #1 at about $600, the Project Debut Carbon Evolution has set a pretty high bar for an entry level turntable. #2 Midway up the curve at about $2000, there are a myriad of excellent tables from Rega, Project, EAT, and others, with room in the budget for a $500-Class cartridge Hana E, Grado, Ortofon. The next point, which is the #3 upper 'knee' in our curve is in the $5,000-ish range. Here you can start discussing VPI, Linn, the higher-end Regas and Clearaudio, as well as moving into the kilo-buck cartridges. Beyond that, the improvements tend to be more incremental than monumental and the investment as much in artistry as technology. 

The bumper sticker version is something like this: the first 80% will cost 1X. the next 10% costs the 3X, and the next 9% 10X. The final 1%, 100X. Your mileage may vary.
cd318
2,636 posts
 
@panzrwagn,

"at about $600, the Project Debut Carbon Evolution has set a pretty high bar for an entry level turntable."


It certainly has, especially with the acrylic platter.

My Rega 3 back in the 1980s comparitively cost about the same but it was still a good upgrade to the LP12. The Carbon I suspect gets an awful lot closer to the Linn.
"The bumper sticker version is something like this: the first 80% will cost 1X. the next 10% costs the 3X, and the next 9% 10X. The final 1%, 100X. Your mileage may vary."

That's not a bad analogy - and the Carbon/Ortofon Blue is easily 80% or more up the ladder.

The more expensive Technics SL 1500C might even be 90%!
More to discover