2. amps-preamps
  3. 165459-91807

3D lifelike sound and impeccable measurements - mutually exclusive???

The more I investigate gear the more it seems that it’s easy to get organic involving sound with flesh and body and a 3D immersive soundstage with the right matching of components but it also seems like it necessitates choosing some components that don’t measure well/add colorations/even order harmonics etc My question is are there components (specifically amps/preamps and integrateds) are out there that combine great measurements and in your mind also have that organic immersive sound that really helps many of us get more emotionally involved in the music or are these qualities mutually exclusive? 
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mahgister's avatar
mahgister
12,476 posts
 
As John Atkinson said, with measurement we can tell apart good speakers from bad speakers.
But the only way to tell a great speaker from a good speaker is by listening. (And that applies to other audio gear as well.)





Great post!

Your post add much to my main points and is clearer than mine...

But you are a scientist and you smell science...

So to speak!

My best to you.....
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Excuse me, but realworldaudio started with his conclusion, that there is nothing wrong with measurements. But his entire argument was nothing but showing all kinds of things wrong with measurements. Then after explaining exactly what is wrong with measurements he concludes that there is nothing wrong with measurements.

And, he calls himself a man of science? But wait, "in professional quality" whatever that means.

I know the state of education is so bad these days no one has been taught the first thing about science. But now even professional scientists haven’t a clue? We are doomed. Doomed, I say.
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
12,476 posts
 
Excuse me, but you started with your conclusion, that there is nothing wrong with measurements. But your entire argument was nothing but showing all kinds of things wrong with measurements. Then after explaining exactly what is wrong with measurements you conclude that there is nothing wrong with measurements.
Millercarbon read more carefully...

He dont speak about measurement the way the "objectivist" speak about them....

You hurry too much on your horse.....

He confirm what i said and what IS the scientific meaning of measurement : RELIABILITY....He even confirm your take on measurement....

For example point 4 in particular:

Measurements all aim at laboratory standards, royally ignoring the requirements of psychoacoustics. That is, we do not measure sound quality as perceived by the human brain. We measure reliability.



Then he IS NOT an "objectivist" audiophile in the "skeptic scientism sunday club" but a true scientific mind...
boxer12
8,654 posts
 
"Measurements all aim at laboratory standards, royally ignoring the requirements of psychoacoustics. That is, we do not measure sound quality as perceived by the human brain."

Well stated realworldaudio!
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
12,736 posts
 
lot’s of wandering in the wilderness drilling dry holes,   if you are interested in moving the collective ball forward then the answer is listen plus measure plus move forward our understanding of the ear brain...

there are many things we have yet to understand, that is perhaps the first step to shedding the ego. Ego sings the praise of something it has yet to hear.....
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