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New Herron VTPH 2A versus used Audio Research Reference 2 Phono

Have been thinking of upgrading my phono stage from my Audio Research PH3 SE.  Looking for easier cartridge loading flexibility, as well as possible upgrade in sound.  Honestly, I've been mostly happy with the current unit but feel it limits me with low output moving coils, many of which work better loaded down a little.

My current front end is a SOTA STAR III/SME V/Benz RUBY Z low output - all running into the phono stage unloaded at 47K.  Line stage is an Audio Research Reference 2 Mk II.  The rest of the system includes a Krell KSA 250 amplifier driving new Magico A5's.

A friend of mine is thinking of upgrading and thus I may have an opportunity to obtain his Audio Research Reference 2 phono (not sure if it is an SE version).  Alternatively, I've been thinking of trying a new Herron VTPH 2A.  I have NOT heard either in my system, only the former in his system.  No local dealers for the Herron, so I'd be taking a chance on it without prior audition.

The used ARC might cost a little more than a new Herron ($3650) but overall the cost difference is not much.

Anyone with experience with both?  Thoughts on which might work best for my system?  Or is there something else available at less than say $6K I should consider instead?

Thanks in advance.
bobbydd
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
I had the PH3SE for close to 20 years. Bought new, a terrific phono stage. Never really felt the need to upgrade. Ran it with a Benz Glider, then a Ruby. Wonderful sound. 

Everything else in my system got a lot better and after a while when I started coming across comments on the Herron it got me doing my usual thorough research and finally calling Keith. You will not pay full price, unless there is a dealer nearby he will discount I think 10%. Which you said there are none, so there you go. A hair over three grand. I would leap on it. 

When I got mine it was staggering how much better it was. You don't know it, but your ARC is woody, colored, slow, congealed, lethargic, sorry shouldn't beat it to death like I said it is a fine phono stage. Just nowhere near the same league as the Herron. My wife heard it immediately through the closed door of my listening room! WHAT DID YOU DO!?!?!? Lol! 

Seriously, search my threads, read my review. Not a lot of reviews out there because Keith Herron does not give them out for review. You have to buy one to find out how good it really is. Get one and you will understand why so many say they are done looking now.

lewm
12,433 posts
 
But wasn’t the ARC reference 2 phono several cuts above the PH3SE? So is it not possible that the reference 2 might outperform the Herron ? I come from a position of not having heard either.
jbrrp1
423 posts
 
While I certainly have read many positive reports on the Herron phono, I have not heard one yet.  I have been using an ARC Ref 2SE for three years now, and it has none of the negatives that Millercarbon reports for the older PH3SE.  Sounds to me like it could be a horse race between the two options!  It likely just depends upon which "course" you are running for which "horse" you might prefer, so I'm just saying don't rule out the ARC.  It would be nice if you could find a way to compare them, but it sounds difficult with the Herron.
jond's avatar
jond
5,655 posts
 
Is it possible for your friend to loan you his Reference 2 to try out in your system? If you can give it a listen that might make your mind up for you.
rdk777's avatar
rdk777
562 posts
 
Spend a little bit more and get the SE - its significantly better than the 2.  Here's a review -

Exclusive First Review: Audio Research's NEW Reference Phono 2SE Phonostage Preamp - The Absolute Sound

I have the 2SE and it'll stay with me for a long time. Good luck.

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