The best TT system for under 30K


Hi agoners! 

I have been floored by Kuzma Stabi XL DC with 4 points TA on a recent audition. It was extremely analog sounding, insane details with speed, beat and clarity that made me wonder if I am listening to a live concert, just can’t help my toe tapping. Was comparing the sound to the top of the line Accuphase CD player with the same rest of system and it was no contest. 

Switching from Accuphase CD player to Kuzma XL DC was sounding like adding a pair of subwoofer and going up 2-3 levels on the rest of the system. Mind you the rest of the system was Accuphase E-650 class A integrated that should favor the Accuphase same brand CD player but that wasn’t the case. The speaker was Kerr Acoustics K300 under 10K entry level bookshelf and the sound of the entire entry level system armed with Kuzma XL DC beat the hell out of the entire super high end system the dealer has on the other listening room with Avalon PM3 speakers, Accuphase A-250 monos, Audionet Stern Preamp with Accuphase CD player. 

However obviously I cannot afford the whole set of Kuzma XL DC considering I am also in the process of upgrading my existing system. What will be the closest contender in the US$30.000 retail price range that has the same sonic signature as Kuzma XL DC? 

Thanks in advance for any advices!!
uwiikz
Dear @uwiikz : Do you remember wich cartridge was mounted in the Kuzma dealer’s system and the Accuphace CD model? in that dealer sessions which CD’s did you listen it and if you can let us know if the comparisons were with the same LP’s titles than the CDs?

Thank’s in advance.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.


I don’t remember what exactly the cartidge was, but it was a $6500 cartridge from Miyajima and $6500 4 point Kuzma tonearm. The CD player was Accuphase DP 750. Phono was the Accuphase plug in board for the integrated amp. The rest of the system was low-ish end really and it beat the hell out of CD player based 200K plus system the dealer had in the other room. The margin of performance was quite a lot between the low-ish end system armed with Kuzma and the 200K plus system that I cannot help to scoff at the other system.
Album on both LP and CD was Diana Krall Live in Paris, same tracks on every comparison. The sound from the CD player while also very very nice was sounding really bland compared to the Kuzma. With the Kuzma the voice was very 3 dimensional, clear and distinct separation from the rest of the sounds. Just by switching to Kuzma it feels like Diana Krall took two steps forward closer to me, ditch the microphone and sing beautifully in a private audience. Clapping audience sounds very very real with distinct energy you can literally feel the audience hands hitting each other. Each bass tone was tight and rounded with complete authority on each hit. I would’ve believed the dealer If I did a blind test and the dealer said he added a subwoofer, the bass quality change was really that extreme. Midrange was very liquid, holographic and magical, there was literally ZERO trace of SS sound, I could’ve sworn it was tube midrange sound. I never thought I would ever ever consider SS in my system but the low-ish end system armed with Kuzma made me a convert in a few minutes. I have been a high end aficionado since I was a 13 years old kid now at 40 (17 years hiatus in between because I have to be an adult and start making my own money instead of siphoning my surgeon dad’s money... I love him dearly) and I never ever ever favor SS sound even on megabucks system until now, Kuzma really made me hear the best quality of an SS system. My wife is my second set of ears and she is my reference for totally objective judgement of sound because she plays many instruments and also sing, she have no idea of the system and cost (before she gets the bill) and she was claiming it was almost exactly like hearing a live concert, that’s the first I ever heard from her. Like I said before, switching from CD player to Kuzma feels like the system was entirely upgraded by 2-3 level of class.

@rsf507  

sorry I am confused ....is correct Frank Kuzma.

There's no real reason why I don't like them, I just don't find these front-ends interesting.
Consider the Nottingham Analogue offerings, particularly the Dais and the Deco. They favour the Trans-Fi Terminator air bearing tonearm, which is itself a tremendous value.

I use a near-Dais standard NA TT with a Terminator TA for mono, with a Miyajima Zero cartridge. It's the best you can do south of an air bearing TT. Which I also have.

IMO.
Path to my upgrade:
- Turntables first and foremost. If result by adding quality TT alone can compare or beat the (my) reference system I auditioned at the dealer then I will stop here, otherwise continue to below steps in order;

I like this plan, and you are in the same budget area as I have been researching for some time now. I am very thorough and careful with my upgrades!

Top of my list is the Onkk Cue. Do your research. Paul Beckett has a masterpiece here. No lube/no wear ceramic bearing, astronomical accuracy speed control, designed to last forever, infinitely user adjustable playback speeds. Comes in right at $30k. If you don’t get that then I am indifferent as there are no bad turntables at this level.

But I don’t know about you but I am not made of money. Have to be very cost-effective, especially at this level. Can easily spend $5k just on the interconnect. Which is one reason I recommend Origin Live Conqueror. Or any Origin Live arm. The phono lead is hard wired. The improves sound by eliminating a lot of harmful connections, and saves big money- not to mention trial and error trying to find the right wire.

On the arm I mount the Soundsmith SG1. The strain gauge saves even more money, as it eliminates the phono stage. Again, do your research. There are shootouts with highly experienced listeners saying you could easily spend $10k to $20k or more just for the phono stage alone, never mind the cartridge, trying to reach the same level of performance.

This front end will probably be closer to $40k or $45k than $30k. However I am confident when you hear the Cue you will understand that as high as it is, it is really only pointing the way to levels even way beyond.

Congratulations on waking up to the reality of analog. You ain’t seen nothing yet! Onkk Cue, OL, SG1, you will be in seventh heaven!
Thanks a million for the suggestions folks! WOW, lots of suggestions and all seems great. There are a lot of brands you guys mentioned that I never heard before and all are looking interesting.  I do however have a problem with auditioning in my particular country Indonesia, it’s a third world country so we don’t have much choice to audition, we do have official dealers for a lot of brands but most are catalogue sales.
Given my country’s lack of audition possibilities, perhaps I should rephrase my original question. What lower priced alternative than Kuzma XL DC that would give me the almost exact same sonic characteristics? I do not want to risk my investment by going to totally different sonic characteristics TT which actually might be also very good perhaps even better than Kuzma XL DC. Everyone’s taste are different and I happen to find my match with the Kuzma XL DC. I would’ve bought the Kuzma XL DC if it’s not outrageously expensive. Perhaps I should stay within Kuzma range to not risk disappointment? Do all the line from Kuzma posses the same sonic characteristics? Does Kuzma have a house sound? I cannot find any deeper discussion about Kuzma in any forum and it’s a bit frustrating given what I heard on the dealer’s system. Unfortunately the official dealer only have one Kuzma TT on stock and that is XL DC. The thing is I can actually afford Kuzma XL DC if I really want to but despite my long history with audio this will be my first rodeo with turntable ever so I am a bit leery of spending that much on my first attempt at TT. I used to always swore on my future grave that I will never touch TT ever, especially after owning good streamer with Roon and boy there is always first for something LOL. 
Perhaps ordering Kuzma R with 4 point 9 tonearm and Miyajima cartridge sounds viable? OR just please somebody tell me XL DC is the best ever and there is no other that can compare so I can just jump the cliff and took the plunge? LOL!! Damn this audio bug, my wife gonna hate me for the next one month.