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Bobby Whitlock YouTube video interviews

Are you familiar with Bobby Whitlock? He came out of the late-60’s Tulsa music scene (a very fertile breeding ground of musical talent), playing keyboards (organ, mostly) with Delaney & Bonnie, Don Nix, Sam & Dave, Booker T & The MG’s, and others. George Harrison then brought Bobby and some other Southern musicians over to England to play on his All Thinks Must Pass album. There Bobby reunited with Eric Clapton, as did drummer Jim Gordon and bassist Carl Radle. After hearing Music From Big Pink and realizing he didn’t want to do Cream anymore, Eric had gone out on the road as a hired gun in the Delaney & Bonnie band, whose members included Bobby, Jim, and Carl. After Harrison’s album was in the can, Eric, Bobby, Jim, and Carl formed Derek & The Dominos, and the rest, as they say, is history.

Bobby and his wife (and musical partner) Coco Turner have a YouTube video "channel", on which they post videos of Coco asking questions and Bobby answering them. They are fascinating! Lots of insights into musicians, their lives and careers, may be gleaned by watching them, so consider giving them a try.

Some of you may be familiar with my attempts here to enlighten ya’ll to the concept of ensemble playing: musicians playing in service to the song, the singer, or both, not to mention the greater good---the collective whole of the Band/Group---rather than for self-glorification. It is my opinion (and not mine alone) that the "best" musicians play in such a manner. Here is Bobby in one of the videos, speaking of the relative failure of the Derek & The Dominos album at the time of it’s release:

"Nobody wanted to hear it. They wanted to hear Cream and stuff like that. They weren’t interested in real songs and real singing."

Many still aren’t.

Speaking of JIm Gordon: When I recorded with Emitt Rhodes (he was engineering and producing a solo act), he told me Jim Gordon was the best drummer he ever worked with. I didn’t take offense (Jim is a favorite of mine as well), he praised my playing at the same time ;-) . By the way, Emitt played drums in his first band---The Palace Guard, turning pro while still in High School, switching to guitar for his second, The Merry-Go-Round (have you heard their great Pop song, "Live"?). He plays them on his great s/t debut album on Dunhill Records. Better than McCartney’s debut!

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roxy54's avatar
roxy54
7,649 posts
 
bdp24,
Oh my God!
"WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT JIM GORDON IS THE GREATEST ROCK ’n’ ROLL DRUMMER THAT EVER LIVED, I THINK IT’S TRUE. BEYOND ANYBODY."
I really and truly have a hard time believing that anyone would consider Jim Gordon to be the greatest. I’m not the typical American I suppose; I don’t look at everything as a contest where there has to be a "best" or a Number 1. I look at it as each having his or her own individual style, and then how they develop and express that style, and by that standard, I find Jim Gordon a solid average. Not innovative, and while certainly a clean player, by no means an amazing technician.
As far as Eric Clapton is concerned, he’s a guitarist with his own opinion, and that opinion carries no weight with me and doesn’t change mine in the least.
bdp24's avatar
bdp24 OP
9,411 posts
 

As I said, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. The notion that one opinion may "carry more weight" than another is also an opinion, one that I have found to have merit.

But beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder. There was a time when I preferred other composers to J.S. Bach. I no longer feel that way, and in fact consider JSB to be "the best" who has ever lived. There was a time when I loved the drumming of Ginger Baker, a player Buddy Rich called "a clown." Turns out Buddy was right, it just took me a while to realize it. ;-) Others are free to have their own opinion, don't bother me none.

"Liking" one thing over another is one thing; saying it is "better" quite another. Jim Keltner has said he wishes he played more like Roger Hawkins. Does the opinion of someone who has never heard of Hawkins carry as much weight as does Keltner's? Of course not. To take it a step further: does the opinion of a "lesser" drummer than Keltner carry as much weight? Or the opinion of a non-drummer?

The answer to those questions are themselves opinion, opinions based upon one's personal idea of what constitutes superior drumming. Eric Clapton has his idea, one I happen to share. My intent in discussing Jim Gordon is not to convert anyone, but rather to provide an inspiration to ya'll to consider why a  musician of Clapton's caliber (I myself like EC, not love him) considers Jim Gordon "the best." It's not for no reason.

onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
5,136 posts
 
bdp24, thanks for starting this thread.  It's always a pleasure to read your thoughts on various musicians.  I wonder though about the context of some of your drummer preferences.  I would imagine that a drummer playing in an ensemble with multiple guitarists, keyboards, a horn section , other percussionists, background singers and a string section would play differently than if he were playing in a power trio.  Sometimes there's space to be filled and other times there's not.
Regarding Jim Gordon, my mind is blown.  He was a drummer in an Eric Clapton rock band before becoming the police commissioner of Gotham!
If you get a chance give a listen to a Jack Bruce album "Out of the Storm".  It's a power trio format with Bruce on bass, Steve Hunter on guitar and either Jim Gordon or Jim Keltner on drums.  I'd be interested in your opinion of their playing in that format.
bdp24's avatar
bdp24 OP
9,411 posts
 

@onhwy61: Good points. Yes, a musician is called upon to provide whatever the music being made calls for. Very, very few musicians are proficient in all styles. Guys like Steve Gadd are thin on the ground. It pains me to hear Rock drummers trying to play Jazz, or even Country. When The Byrds went Country, they unfortunately took in Gene Parsons, a drummer who did not understand what was appropriate for that genre of music. For me his drumming ruined The Byrds albums he played on. Waaay too busy---"fiddly", with syncopated kick drum. Dude, you’re stepping all over the other player’s parts, not to mention the vocals.

In one of the Bobby Whitlock videos he is asked about Keith Moon, with whom Bobby during his residence in England became close friends (Bobby lived with Clapton for a year, then with George Harrison at Friar Park for about six months, eventually getting his own house). He is asked if he and Keith ever played music together, and he immediately says "Oh no", then goes on to explain why.

Bobby was the 1st-chair drummer in his High School marching band, and very well understands drumming. Bobby then plays "air drums", displaying the drumming style that Keith was unable to play in, the style that is required in the music Bobby makes. He then says Keith could play other stuff, but not the meat ’n’ potatoes Rock ’n’ Roll/Blues/R & B that Bobby plays. He mentions Al Jackson (Booker T & The MG’s), Jimmy Karstein (a great, great Tulsa drummer who played with Dylan, J.J. Cale, T Bone Burnett, Delaney & Bonnie, Leon Russell, etc.), and the astoundingly-great Roger Hawkins (that’s him on Boz Scaggs’ debut album, Paul Simon’s Kodachrome, and all of Aretha’s Atlantic albums). Horses for courses, as the expression goes. English drummers are notoriously inept at playing American Roots music, not understanding how to create the deep pocket/groove/feel absolutely essential for the music. Listen to Hawkins drumming on Wilson Picket’s "634-5789". Sounds easy? Try to replicate it!

Though born and raised in Southern California, Jim Gordon could play as if he was a Southern boy. That’s especially mystifying as he came out of the L.A. studios, playing on an Everly Brothers date at age 17 (!). Jim Keltner was the drummer in Delaney & Bonnie’s band, and he switched places with Gordon, Keltner moving into the studio, Gordon going on the road with D & B, where he first met and played with Clapton. Not commonly known, Jim Gordon also had enough technical ability to work with Frank Zappa, a very demanding gig.

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