What is it in MM that can give me goose-bumps? 🤔

Ok, thanks for all those cartridge suggestions.

Though if I left the impression of needing any more than the 6 MM/I cartridges I already own, this was not intended. Sorry.

According to Russian psychology (at least) as I now learned, goose-bumps an be caused by most anything, even a good motion? 😝
Never mind an experience of well presented analogue music.

So what we have here, is a phenomena strictly experienced by myself, if it’s suggested?

Interesting.
If that’s the case, it doesn’t explain really anything, other than having asked the wrong question, no? 🤔
Stuff happens, no harm done.

Thanks again for all the kind feedback.
Michélle 🇿🇦

Yes I understand. I had a 2M black that has shibata. It sounded like a CD and unengaged to me like you say OP "sort of 'engineered' about the sound".
A simple ML110 solved that issue and I never looked back. Now I am using a AT540ML.

Though if I left the impression of needing any more than the 6 MM/I cartridges I already own, this was not intended. Sorry.

@justmetoo

It’s OK, after my first high-end LOMC I was pretty sure that it is the last cartridge, but then I bought 60 more somehow over the years, because of the curiosity.

According to Russian psychology (at least) as I now learned, goose-bumps an be caused by most anything, even a good motion? 😝
Never mind an experience of well presented analogue music.

Some people even crying when the music is good, they don’t need a cartridge for that, emotional contact with the music can be settled even if you’re playing a song from iPhone.

Playing music from vinyl records for the people for over 20 years I’ve seen a lot, been traveling worldwide with my records. For majority of people Music is the key, not a cartridge, not even a sound system!

Neither the best resolution CD or MC will give me goose-bumps.
Changing to e.g. my AT 440ML will do, will emotionaly move me, has emotional *impact* with every note played. CD and even MC seems to resonate with my intellect, my MMs with my emotions.
It seems somehow contradictory, but so it is.
Anyone else has these experiences?

Audiophiles are strange.

Sitting alone in front of the speakers we have to hear what was recorded mixed and mastered by professionals in the studio. In other words we have to hear the truth. If it was analog master then it must be Reel to Reel or Vinyl, and this is where digital doesn’t work.

This is what you have to read to understand why an MM (you’re not alone with your impression):

* Interesting point of view from TAS magazine (back issue) article called "Assessing the State-of-the-Art in Storage Media" (Issue 40). In this, J. T. Henderson reports on a listening session comparing digital master tape, analogue master tape, direct-to-disc lacquer and the "live" mike feed; the report consists of a long conversation among J. Boyk, Keith Johnson, Doug Sax, and JTH himself.

Those people were top sound engineers if you don’t know:

"On the one hand, we have assurances of the leaders of the High End recording industry that the best Moving Magnets are very close to the Master Tape and that they are capable of "uncanny" resolution. On the other hand, we have the prevailing perception, amounting almost to a shibboleth, of the High End listening community, that only Moving Coils are realistic in some sense of that word and that Moving Magnets are incapable of sonic truth. While it is clearly beyond the scope of a single review to resolve this conflict entirely, a couple of points come to mind. In direct comparison of two "sounds", tonal balance differences show up very conspicuously. Good Moving Magnets can be very nearly neutral tonally, as well as being low in the kinds of distortion that are audibly significant. Moving Coils are low in distortion, too, but typically they are quite far from neutral tonally, with a "presence range" suck-out followed by a high frequency rise."

Their choice of monitoring cartridge during the disk mastering process was Stanton 881s mkII, Audio-Technica AT-ML170 and Technics P100c mk4. All cartridges are Moving Magnet type.

BUT not every MM cartridge of today can give you what Stanton, Audio-Technica, Technics ... top models can do!

P.S. I can imagine how many great TAS articles about classic MM or MC cartridges I have missed, they are not available online sadly. 

@chakster 
Thank you dear man, always find your posts of greater interest, even if by some sensibilities - also my own - you can come across a bit 'strong' flavoured at times, eh? 

And many thanks also for sharing this TAS article!

As for me, now never mind the underlying technicalities (I'm still nosy...) , it explains my ongoing preference for MMs in particular. Even though I have tried *so very many times* to 'love' MC's sound presentations - to no avail as yet. 

I'll bear in mind your cartridge suggestions (alas, SA is a *notoriously bad* country for ordering and RECEIVING goods these days!).

Once my currently owned MMs give up the ghost 👻, who knows? 

You're a ⛲ of experience and derived knowledge. 
Michélle 🇿🇦 

@justmetoo
I’ve played with the exact aspects you speak of and it is tied directly to the chakster illustrated points.

and I’ve fixed them.

At which point a good MC done this way starts to sound more like a high quality MM, with the majority of all the remaining MC faults in situ, obviously. Then I went to work on those....(and that remains an unfinished project out of dozens of similar ones)

Point is, that the MC faults are what people are living off of re falsified detail that they cannot mentally parse out.

to parse out the point or fact that all sequenced conversions of prior signal, in the mechanical to electrical conversion sense...are going to have dynamic and living faults and specifically losses.

losses or alterations in correctness that will do exactly as chakster implies. To put it country simple, the MC is noise shaping, and the MM does less of this, but still does it.

The trick is to remove as much of the components that mask this, as is possible. In either the MC or the MM.

In the MC world, one way to lessen the one poorly realized issue, is to use Alnico magnets. Their hysteresis is minimal compared to most.

This will be heard as a clarity to some and a loss of detail to others.

Depends, literally, on how the person listens.

Sadly, the norm of hearing and learning to hear in the audio world, can generally encompass the wrong direction, due to how much noise is inherent in the given systems as a sum total chain. Thus punching specific distortions (realized or unrealized) above this complex noise floor can be and generally is -- mistaken as detail.

the Teo audio cables and the cartridges and the unpublished circuit refinements, unpublished teo loudspeakers, etc are all designed around fixing these problems.

What we end up with is a startlingly noise free and warmly detailed system with insane transients and huge gobs of harmonic delineation, just like live signals have.

The Teo Audio MM carts are designed in such an environment, one where the window (for the designers) is exceedingly clear so these problems can be tackled and be resolved. And thus removed correctly.

What we end up with is world class MM with the least amount of self noise that you can find in a MM cart and probably most MC carts, for a huge dynamic range and richness of signal retrieval unfettered by self noise and additive/cumulative distortions. Where groove distortions become uncannily resolvable.

The window of the motor proper is brutally clean, Where the mechanicals left at fault in the moving components are the last part of the puzzle. When the stylus is upgraded from the basic bonded versions with thick-walled heavy cantilevers (03x0.7 elliptical) ..to the nude and light versions with a better suspension (Microline or shibata), the differences, the gains.. become shocking and unexpectedly potent.

As.. the key thing is, most people realize nude mounted styli, on superior cantilevers, they show their advantage in a notable way..well... with the Teo MM carts, there are no other conflations that obscure their effectiveness. The perceived differences, the gains, become notably greater.

Getting people to understand that is going to be a frightfully long process, it seems. Unless people take us up on our 30 day free trial for our basic phono carts. and then upgrade the stylus at their own leisure and self selected costing and pricing.

A scenario where they are in the drivers seat, not the cartridge producer (MC re-tipping, special styluses that are limited in availability and source points, etc). Even there, we’re giving them what they want.

The trick is getting enough people to understand this simple seeming MM in a crowded world of competing pricing, truly does stand head and shoulders above the rest. and I do mean the rest. Hence the 30 day free trial. For a cartridge. That is the gauntlet which has been thrown down.

Come on people, figure it out.....The only known cartridge with a 30 day trial (on the basic versions). A trial period that has to exist for a REASON. It’s not a game.

It’s a gauntlet thrown down, a stake in the ground, a proclamation nailed to the wall.

A combination that everyone begs for, which is the highest quality available at the lowest price possible with the highest level of the buyer being in the drivers seat.

You all wanted this... so please realize that someone did their best to bring it into existence. As, if enough people don’t give it this essentially free shot, then what might be the best MM’s that people might ever hear, will die on the vine... and never get the chance to grow into a real force to be reckoned with.