Question For Those In The Know About Audio Research Power Amps


I've flirted with ARC gear over the years, owning an LS5 preamp some years ago but never trying their power amps.

I've always had the idea that ARC tube power was a little lean and sterile and not in the Conrad Johnson style of presentation, with tube bloominess and that glorious CJ midrange.

Of course, I realize not all ARC amps sound the same and that some are warmer and more tube-like than others.

Anyway, I recently purchased an ARC Reference 110 SE, and really like a lot about what it does. Stage depth and imaging are excellent, it's detailed and dynamic. As if to reinforce the negative stereotype, it is a little on the lean side, but not horribly so. It's a musical amp overall, and that's what counts.

Questions -
1 - this was sold to me as a "SE" model, which I understood to mean that it was modified to allow the use of KT150's, which my amp has. Was this an 'official' factory modification, and if so, is the SE designation something which can be used when I try to resell the amp? I can't seem to find others running KT150's referring to their amp as the 'SE'. Or is the SE designation relating to a different upgrade altogether? 

2 - is this 'SE' amp backwards compatible with any other tube types?

2 - what's the next model up from the Ref 110 that might exhibit a little more tube bloom (warmth) than the  Ref 110? I wouldn't want to lose the wonderful transparency and soundstage ability of this unit, but if it could be fleshed out a little more then that would be a plus. The amp is only a couple weeks old, to me, so I'm still trying cables and supports etc, to see if there's more to be had, but I would say at this stage that this is a pretty amazing amp.

Any insights would be appreciated!

Thanks
Rooze

128x128rooze
@fsonicsmith response it very telling.  ARC goes through many tubes in order to produce "matched" tubes.  they probably re-sell they non passing tubes to other's.  however, that says a lot about Audio Research and their level of expected excellence.

I made the mistake of purchasing tubes for my REF 250 amps from a "reputable" tube supplier in Southern California.  They claimed that the tubes were matched and to specifications for the REF 250 amps.  Not cheap, but much less than what Audio Research sells them for.

Well, approximately $3000 in repairs later, I learned my lesson.  Tubes failed after they were correctly biased.  I was sitting there and actually saw the tube go up spectacularly and the circuit board.  It took out other parts of the circuit, not just resistors.  It costs $3000 to repair. 

If I had purchased the tubes from Audio Research directly, they would have repaired the amp free of charge if their supplied tubes caused the failure.

The authorized Audio Research repair center that did the repair work, told me to never purchase tubes from that supplier as although they claim that they are matched and to specification, they are not.  They proceeded to test all the remaining tubes and showed me the readings vs Audio Research's standards for that amp.  These brand new tubes weren't even close.  They were way outside the acceptable range. Also, when the tubes arrived, they listed clearly on the labels what the specs were.  That is so wrong.

I never contacted that tube supplier, because, what is the point?  If anything they would have replaced that one tube.  But no way would they have repaired the amp.

When I repair solid state amps and I have to purchase transistors, I typically have to purchase many just to find matching ones and also ones to match the "good ones" still in the amp.  Often, I just replace all the transistors, just to be safe.

So, I can see why the costs of tubes from Audio Research is so much higher.

enjoy



OMG!Didn’t know ARC was in the Mac group. Ironic in view of the intra- staff battles that raged in our 70’s hifi emporium about the fact that they sounded SO DAMN DIFFERENT! I was with David Beatty Stereo in Kansas City. He was rightly a much respected early hi-end dealer who swore that ALL amplifiers sound the same if they do 20-20K. The D-76 hit we young freaks like a B-26! Then the SP-3 and the first Maggies and DQ’s arrived and the rest is history--and the financial ruin of many a young man. Maybe I’ll open a store called "The House of the Rising Sun."

@minorl
@fsonicsmith

Great posts/info, thanks.

I wrote a long update on the situation but the whole post was taken down by admin.
I’d forgotten we’re all children here and need to be protected from such profanity.
Does anyone know how to get a post reinstated so I can update on what’s transpired between dealer/ARC/myself?

Thanks everyone I’ve learned a lot from this thread.

Rooze

Post removed 
I talked to my AR dealer this morning. ARC is evidently charging $275 for the KT150's. That is EACH. So in case you are not good at math, with shipping and tax, you are looking at close to $2400 to re-tube a Ref 150SE like mine. It tempts me to seek a trade for an ARC Ref 75SE. They are not necessarily scalping-they need to buy huge batches of tubes to find suitable ones, expend the time to perform the testing, and can't simply return the rejects for a refund. But I stick with what I said previously, ARC bet the ranch on the 150 tube and the consumer is left to pay for that choice. The situation is slightly ameliorated by the toughness of the good KT150's that will go 3000 hours, but only slightly, 
ARC has never been a value-driven product but now under McIntosh they seem to be a lifestyle-based product-for show and bragging rights. One could argue that AR had no means of predicting that New Sensor would have such QC problems with the 150 tube but AR has done nothing to guide their buyers on the topic of alternative tubes. I intend to try Genalex Gold Lion KT88's and see what happens/hope for the best.