Are integrated amps technically better than separates?

headphonedreams

... some amp designers actually think that the best thing is to have an integrated amp with a separate power supply. That is a two box solution but with different separation of what goes in which box.

Huh?
I’ve never seen such a product.
Do you have any actual examples?
It doesn’t seem to make sense. If you’re going to have two boxes, I’d think you’d want a separate preamplifier.

It all depends on the designer’s thesis. Some companies design to a pricepoint while others design to cover an inherent compromise. Others still design with a specific function in mind and then let form follow. There is no valid engineering reason that an integrated can’t be designed to perform in the typical domestic environment within its specifications to a degree that performance isn’t compromised. Once again though, most audiophiles don’t like to be constrained to particular speakers, cables, etc. When I read that someone built their system around a specific vacuum tube type, I get a little confused what it is they are after. Fine if its an engineering exercise in whats possible with the tube type being the constant. I believe its backwards but hey, you spend your money, you get to decide how.


Now, integrateds don’t check all the audiophile boxes unrelated to sound: its “cooler” for some reason to some who frequent here to introduce more complexity (both visually and physically) to satisfy some other urge than listening to music. We have all seen photos of these shrines where special ebony footers from one side of a particular river sound more “immediate” than the same wood sourced from the other side. More boxes and cables (and thus more variables) may bring joy to many.  Its all good if thats what floats a persons boat but to summarily dismiss the concept of an integrated as being inherently inferior to separates is too general and as in all things in life, the correct answer is “it depends”.

@cleeds 

I believe ASR uses external power supplies in their integrated. I have never heard one but it might be an example of form following function. In their opinion, getting the power noise separated must meet their design goals.

Taking away the flexibility factor of separates, is my line of thinking correct?

No. If you want to build an integrated amplifier that has the same performance as separates, you would have to have individual power transformers for each power amp in the box as well as whatever preamp is in the box. In a nutshell you're not likely to see that. Keeping all the ground currents straight is another engineering nightmare that has to be solved too; with individual boxes that's a lot easier!

There is also the issue of speaker cables. If you are running low impedance speakers, the cables become pretty critical and length matters! So you wind up being limited as to how far apart you can place the speakers. I like an expansive soundstage so the speakers need to be far apart; pretty tricky with everything in one box unless you have 16 ohm speakers (where the cables make less difference).


They are a compromise, plain and simple. The only reason this is a topic is because there are good integrated amps and fair separates so there is some crossover. But the best separates are not bettered by an integrated amp. 

On one hand,
in integrated you can make signal path shorter. Especially in low power SET amplifier. You can build 2A3 or 45 amplifier using only 2 stages or 300B with only 3 stages.
In separates you need more stages and more interconnect cables. Each amplification stage, capacitor and cable add distortions and noise. 

On the other hand,
in separated components you can use monoblocks with very short speakers cables, separate power supply transformers and chokes for each channel improves channel separation. A separated power supply for preamp and phono stage make noise level much lower.