New Zirconia Pipe Cantilever .. What's up with that ?


Reading Namiki website i discovered new type of cantilever available today:

Zirconia cantilever (Pipe) , well this is the only pipe cantilever (except for aluminum) available today to my knowledge, correct me if i’m wrong. This is something new.

"Because the material’s relative density is comparatively high at 6.0, we make full use of our technology to process it into a pipe shape. This cantilever plays a charming sound that is different from other materials."

Physical properties for currently available cantilevers described here.

**Any new cartridges with Zirconia Pipe cantilever available on the market ?

BTW: Browsing Namiki website, to my surprise, on top of the page i recognized that "unique cantilever" of my ex ZYX Premium 4D cartridge. In many of my posts i have mentioned this construction as something special, because the MR diamond is press-fit and the cantilever described by ZYX as Boron. Now i think that joint pipe for stylus tip (press-fit) was made of Zirconia and the rest is Boron Rod.

Since they are both hollow PIPES (black color) i assume they are Zirconia (no other black pipes from namiki).
This is what Nakatsuka-San using in Airy III and Premium 4D ZYX models (owned both models).




128x128chakster
I did not mean to suggest that Peter is the “last word” if such a thing exists.  He is however an authority and I mentioned him only because I happen to have one of his cartridges with a ruby cantilever.  I did not buy it for the cantilever.  Nor did I buy it for ease of stylus and cantilever replacement. That was not the topic of your thread.  I prefer originals as well.  
To me tracking ability is more than staying in the groove of a warped record. It is all about responding to the modulations within the grooves.  I believe stylus, suspension and compliance are more important in this regard. 

My original reply to your thread was a reaction to the different physical properties of minerals used to make the cantilevers, the short stiff posts. My opinion is this difference is way down the list of what makes a good cartridge. You  are emphasizing that it is a new pipe construction which to me is a different issue. Fine.

You have more knowledge and experience with cartridges than I, so I defer.  However I doubt that you organize and rate your fifty transducers based on which mineral is used to construct the cantilever. This is the point I was trying to make.

Finally, why is it currently impossible to make the vintage type of cantilevers that you admire?  Seems odd to me.

All the best.


Finally, why is it currently impossible to make the vintage type of cantilevers that you admire?  Seems odd to me.

@flatblackround 

1) I wish to know why, before Zicronia Pipe appeared in the list of available cantilevers from Namiki and Ogura there was a Boron Pipe in the 70's, as you might know Technics P100c mk4 has ultra low moving mass.

This is what Technics invented in the 70's and improved in the 80's making cartridges like 205c mk4 (my pair) with very special Boron Pipe cantilever. It's nothing but a grown crystals of Pure Boron into a pipe configuration. A tip mounting hole made using a laser beam. This is pretty much the same that another Japanese company made with Grace LEVEL II but with at least one serious advantage over the Technics. The difference is the type of the low mass stylus tip. Grace LEVEL II BR/MR is Boron Pipe with MicroRidge. When you comparing Elliptical with MicroRidge you know that Elliptical simply can't win. Furthermore, type of the cantilever and the whole moving mass is very important according to this Technics research: "Somewhere in the high frequencies, every cartridge has an undesirable resonance point. Undesirable because there the frequency response curve climbs a sudden peak. If that peak is in the audible range, your records sound not as intended. That resonance frequency is determined by the total effective moving mass of the vibrating system - the summed masses of the diamond stylus and, most importantly, the cantilever and magnet, etc. To shift that harmful resonance frequency up into the high supersonics, the effective moving mass must be reduced to the lowest possible minimum. Also, too much effective moving mass increases the mechanical impedance, thereby negatively affecting the cartridge's tracing ability." Cartridges i am talking about are both have very low moving mass and similar exotic hollow pipe cantilevers. But Grace LEVEL II has much better suspension/damper compared to Technics 205c mk4 or 100cmk4 (technics damper material became very soft in time and i've seen about 7 samples with this disease). But i never seen any bad sample of Grace LEVEL II, damper is always fine! Grace has a much better LC-OFC coil wire (utilized in LEVEL II or F14 models). 

2) The reason why Beryllium cantilevers are no longer available is this:

"According to NIOSH (the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, 2011), "workers exposed to particles, fumes, mists and solutions from beryllium-containing materials may develop beryllium sensitization or chronic beryllium disease, a potentially disabling or even fatal respiratory disease."

In top top-10 cartridges i have many with beryllium cantilevers like Victor X-1II or Pioneer PC-1000 mkII and AT-ML180 OCC (rare beryllium version). 

Let me quote another member regarding Audio-Technica cartridges: 

There was a thread on Audiogon quite a while ago in which a former engineer from Audio Technica was participating. He wrote a rather in depth post as to why Beryllium was the go to material for cantilevers and the panic that ensued at AT when the EPA came down with the order that it no longer be used due to the dangerous toxic dust released when machining the material. He stated that the engineering department underwent a lot of R&D to find a suitable replacement material and Boron was what they determined would be closest, however it was still a compromise. Apparently Beryllium allows for the largest frequency excursion without distortion and also permits better channel separation and signal to noise ratios. This is why it was so good." - @simpikins5


@nandric is right that  parts together make the whole while whole is ''more'' than the parts. We like vintage MM and MI cartridges because of the sound, not because of the parts. But when we think why they are better than others we can't ignore parts when it's clear that some of those parts are no longer available (such as different cantilevers made of beryllium or boron pipe ... and more).   

If the cartridge tracks well and is neutral I could care less what it is made of. Having said this I will side with Johnathan Carr on this one. Rigidity balanced with low mass are the hallmarks of a good cantilever. Anything heavier will play havoc with tracking. Titanium would make a lousy cantilever It is way too springy. I could not be used for bicycle forks for this reason. Could you make a cantilever out of carbon fiber? I'm not sure you could make fibers that small. 
You can keep your NOS cartridges. I'll take the new ones thank you. 
I tried many new cartridges up to $5000 price like this, no thanks. 

More happy to pay $1000 for some very interesting models (NOS). 

A cartridge with Titanium Pipe cantilever is very nice: Victor X-1IIe 

You know, i trust more to the companies like JVC Victor, those guys actually changed the whole hi-fi landscape in this world. There was a reason for use Titanium Pipe, Beryllium cantilevers and so on and on.

When everything is digital the choice is getting limited as the public demand for analog cartridges is not that big anymore. 

I am grand those cantilever manufacturers trying to invest something new! 

If someone is happy to stick to the 5 modern cart manufacturers i have no problem with it. Leave the rest for people like me, i will be happy to buy NOS vintage cartridges, the best of them. But i see so many other people who're biding on them on auctions and they know why.   
  
Dear @flatblackround :  Certainly that the cantilever or stylus are not the most importante characteristic inany phono cartridge.

I participated in that thread where J.carr posted and in that thread the subject was something that I always supported and supports: that top LOMC cartridges must be re-tipped by the cartridge manufacturers and not retippers, retippers are for MM/MI and low level MC cartridges and nothing more.

I always support too that the most important part in any cartridge is its cartridge motor that's the one that makes " the differences ". Yes, cantilever and stylus are important too but never at the cartridge motor levels. 

Of course that always are persons as the OP that never learn and that are they whom understand nothing about cartridge designs and not people like you, me and several other gentlemans out there.

The OP is a dedicated vintage seller and he promotes what can gives the opportunity to take money from any one in this and other forums.

It's false too that hollow cantilevers are better than rod ones. Things are that through my adventure in this thread:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/who-needs-a-mm-cartridge-type-when-we-have-mc

I found out an unexpected seller of 7-8 NOS Technics EPC100CMK4 stand alone top MM vintage cartridge, so I posted there and some of us  bougth it. I bougth two samples.
By design that cartridge came with boron hollow cantilever and one of my samples collapsed after a few hours and I sended to VdH to fix it and he did it and between other things he changed the catilever for a boron rod one. In the mean time I was listening to my other sample and when I made it the comparison in between the one with boron rod  rod outperformed the original sample with hollow boron cantilever. Any change in a cartridge will sounds different to the original but here sounds better not only different.

One truly important issue to make audio item evaluations/comparisons is to have a very high resolution room/system and to know what to look for and the OP system is far away from there.

Anyway, the issue is that cartridge motors is the most important characteristic in any cartridge.

If you read this thread:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/adc-26-best-pritchard-cartridge-ever-or-best-cartridge-ever

that cartridge, that's a " pain in the ass " to make the rigth set up for the cartridge really shines and can shows at its best, is really old with a truly humble cantilever and stylus shape however its quality level performance is way higher and it's because its cartridge motor design ! ! ! 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
r.