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Thoughts on Tube vs SS amplification for Sony SS AR1s

Hi all~
Was hoping someone with more knowledge than me may be able to help clear up some confusion I’ve been having.
I recently was able to acquire my ‘unicorn’ speakers, the SS AR1s.  4 ohms, 88 dB, 28hz-60khz.
i have an integrated tube amp, the  Luxman LX-380, which on paper doesnt seem to deliver a lot of power for these speakers (14 w into 4 ohms), but i have been really surprised by how full/robust everything sounds with the Luxman in place. I had been advised that a more powerful SS amp (‘at least 200 w per channel!’)  would be needed to get the most out of the SS AR1s (and i have had a lot of SS amps in the past), but To be honest I’m pretty impressed with how it sounds already - So,  i was just hoping someone with more experience here could weigh in? Is it necessarily true that tubes just aren’t a good match for a speaker of this sensitivity? Would a more powerful amp like the luxman mQ-88uc (25 w into 4 ohms) be worth looking into? Would a powerful SS amp really make these speaker sing (and i just dont know what I’m missing)? I want to take advantage of the low-end of these new speakers (which is the main difference from my previous pair), so looking for some guidance re tube amps and exerting control over speakers like these.

thanks much!
sfmorris
erik_squires
15,640 posts
 
The biggest issue, that I can see, is the dip in impedance between 100 Hz and about 700 Hz.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-ss-ar1-loudspeaker-measurements

What I have found is that even with modest SS amps, this causes a noticeable depression in the output. So... what you may be enjoying is a very V shaped curve.  If you find yourself listening at low volumes, that's what's happening. You've set yourself up with an accidental loudness button. :)

Should you change it? Only if you are dissatisfied.  A beefy SS amp or just beefier amp in general, will flatten out the audible response.  Better for higher volume listening for sure.

I'm sure you'll hear a difference, pay attention to the ideal listening level when you try other amps, and the upper bass. Listen for a while and see if it's better or worse for long term listening.
sfmorris OP
14 posts
 
Thanks everyone for the very helpful input - you’ve given me a few things to research, and of course reminded me to trust my ears (always a good reminder). @erik thats an interesting point you made about lower volume listening - I’ll spend some time listening a bit more carefully and see if can hear what you’re describing.

@jond thats exactly what i should be doing, you’re right~ I wish I had an SS amp on hand just to compare (I can’t imagine them sounding much better than they do)

@george accuphase seems to have some good integrated that double through to 2 ohms. Do you have any personal suggestions?

@miller thats exactly what i have been thinking as i listen to the luxman - forget what it says on paper, i cant see it sounding much better - one thing i dont get about the lx 380 is the power output for 4 ohms seems to be weakest? 20W + 20W (6Ω), 18W + 18W (8Ω), 14W + 14W (4Ω)
I’m not sure how to interpret that...
erik_squires
15,640 posts
 
Luxman SS is also a very good candidate. Certainly I think more reasonably priced in the US.
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
sfmorris OP
@george accuphase seems to have some good integrated that double through to 2 ohms. Do you have any personal suggestions?


Yes, my order would be.  

Gryphon Diablo 120 or 300 if you have the funds
https://gryphon-audio.dk/shop/integrated-amplifiers/diablo-120/
https://gryphon-audio.dk/shop/integrated-amplifiers/gryphon-diablo-300-integrated-amplifier/

Parasound Halo Integrated. Hint-6
https://www.parasound.com/hint6.php

Hegel H190
Hegel integrated amps "maybe" but from tests the 160 couldn’t really do even close to doubling into 2ohms, they only managed a 20w increase from the 4ohm figure.

Same with the Pass Labs Integrated, on test they don’t increase too much both channels driven from 4 to 2 ohms

Cheers George
audition__audio
1,304 posts
 
Almost without fail, tube amps will have greater low level detail, better linearity and a more organic presentation. Almost without fail, tube amps will react much more negatively than S.S. to low impedance speakers or impedance dips. 

One type of power is not better than the other and to say such a thing is foolish. Knowing Sony and also looking at the specs of your speakers, I would say that are grossly underpowering your speakers and would be best served by a more powerful S.S. amp.

This could be a situation in which you wont know what you are missing until you hear it for yourself. I think the speaker determines the amp in most cases.
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