Badly recorded albums needing upgrading


My new music system is in place, fairly well burnt in, and speaker placement and other tweaks are coming along. In the process I’ve been learning how much variation there is in the quality of both CD and vinyl recordings. This range in quality was not apparent on my old equipment.

For example, as I go through my old records, I’ve noticed a couple of favorites that are terribly recorded. A well known sub-par recording, Eric Clapton’s (Derek and the Dominoes) "Layla and Other Love Songs" is virtually not listenable. The Stones "Let It Bleed" I’ve had to replace with a Japaneses SACD as Jagger’s vocals sounded like he recorded them with a garbage can over his head. That SACD does sound considerably better, although the vocals on "Gimme Shelter still sound muffled. After some research on site and elsewhere, I just ordered another Japanese SACD of Layla out of the myriad available, which the reviewers said made Layla at least listenable.

Here’ the obvious problem. Both replacements were expensive as CD’a and records go, and I only want to spend that kind or resources on absolute favorite records. I am filling in the rock and roll and R&B portion of my record and CD collection of artists ranging from the Beatles up through the Sex Pistols. Are there any other well known albums like "Let It Bleed" or "Layla" I should avoid, or might already have, that will need to be purchased or bought again in upgraded formats. I’m not asking about obscure groups, but instead more well known artists like the Dead, Hendrix, Aretha Franklin, anything Motown, Janis Joplin, Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Bowie, Roxy Music, The Clash, Talking Heads, etc.

I’ve also been purchasing a lot of vintage jazz, from Ellington through the Weather Report and would like to avoid bad recordings there too. In the jazz realm I’ve been acquiring economical Redbook CD sets like Bill Evans’ 12 Classic Albums, and most recently Wayne Shorter’s entire Blue Note recordings made with RVG (Rudy Van Gelder ) remasters. What I’ve learned so far I to do when purchasing these sets it to avoid those that are made of re-recorded MP3 files. Those sets don’t advertise they are MP3 file based, so I dig around reviews by purchasers who after after getting bilked, expose these recordings labels on Amazon,com Music . If you’ve any of these classic jazz sets or albums or reissue labels I should be avoiding, please let me know.

For example, I’m currently looking to purchase economical multiple album sets of Billie Holiday’s Commodore, Verve, and Decca recordings and would like to know which sets to avoid or conversely which sets are well done.. I like among others Miles Davis, Coltrane, Lester Young, Mingus, Charlie Parker, John McLaughlin, Art Blakely, Chet Baker, Ella Fitgerald, Gerry Mulligan and the like. Again, not obscure recordings or artists. I’d really like to not get burned on substandard recordings too. Si Iif you could forewarn of any particular recordings, or any reissue labels to avoid, please do. Next year I might start to get more Classical Music recordings, but that’s another ball of wax for another day

Maybe this question is too broad or poorly defined but I’d appreciate any help you could provide to avoid disappointment or throw any more cash in the garbage. Thanks, and I’d be pleased to answer any questions to clarify this rambling post.

Mike
skyscraper
Audioguy. I'll add MA recordings and Acoustic Sounds to a growing  list of sources for well recorded music.Maybe I'll even give Mobile Fidelity a second chance. I still get aggravated by their original "high (actually low) quality" Dark Side of the Moon pressing , which I still have from decades ago. I wasn't aware that the quality of vinyl records fell off so precipitously in the late seventies and eighties into the nineties. Thanks for that info.

Mitchagain, I'll have to dig out my old Blind Faith album today and see if its another recording disaster. Haven't played that in eons. Must be a first pressing since it was purchased right after it was released. Update: Playing it right now. It's definitely not an audiophile quality recording, everything sounds a bit muffled especially Stevie ?Winwoods vocals, but at least it's not in the unplayable, unlistenable Layla league.

The Richard Barone material you quoted was quite interesting too. The anecdote about Lou Reed brought to mind another current thread about about imaging where one of his recordings, "Street Hassle" maybe,  was recommended as a good example of well done imaging. I happened to have the recording mentioned   and was able to listen to how well it was done. 

The_treble_with_tribles, and tomcy6, I'll have to become more familiar with that site, and check out albums before making a disappointing purchase of ones that fall into lower dynamic range categories of 5,6 and 7. I need to start paying more attention to dynamic range as a significant part of the sound quality picture. Carver had designed some technology to address this issue on my old Phase Linear 4000 preamp. It was called a "peak unlimiter". I always left it in the "on" position. I wonder if that technology was any good or if it has simply disappeared for no reason.

Interesting too about dynamic range figures not being absolutely comparable between LP's and CD's. I'm definitely learning some new things here. Thanks

Plaw,  thanks for the recommends on the SACDs. I havn't much in the way of later Dylan and post Layla Clapton, although it would be interesting to compare my LP copy of Avalon with the SACD version.

Oregonpapa, you're absolutely spot on about the mono recordings. The Masterworks Ellington Masterpieces CD mentioned earlier is  mono and recorded superbly. I was afraid I'd bought a dud when I saw it was a mono recording, before playing it that is.

Glad to hear you recommend all those jazz labels you listed. I've many older jazz LP's on many of them and feel more comfortable getting more of the same knowing  they maintain high recording standards. That's good news for sure.

William 1957, I've had good luck with some of the multi-album sets so far, but I've researched each one beforehand. there a numerous ones to avoid thoufgh as you point out. That's one reason I started this thread, to winnow out the culprits on these sets. You mention some labels are not transparent. Would you mind saying which ones you are disappointed with in this regard to save me the work of having to find this info out the hard way.  

Thank you for the label recommendations. I've added them to my list, which is coming along quite nicely. Thank you for your well thought out and interesting post. I've read it twice now. You're right, there are a lot of variables to work out, but that seems to be the name of the game that keeps Audiogon going. It's great fun though when you do find a recording
that moves you, is well recorded, and you the gear to play it to it's best advantage. It doesn't have to be the case to enjoy good music , but it's hard to beat when it all falls into place. Appreciate your thoughtful response.

Crustycoots, I've all the records you mentioned, except the last and will take a listen to each as I revisit my collection on my new equipment. I'll especially check out the Hendrix Rainbow Bridge as we both have the 1971 pressing. Appreciate the recommendation on MA recordings that Audioguy likes too. 

Tuberist, I agree with you the music comes first, then the quality of the recording with the exception of real dogs like Layla which make the music unlistenable on good equipment. No reason not to get the best recordings you can reasonably afford, if it doesn't impinge overmuch on your overall number of purchases. I've so many recordings I'd like to acquire before I amble off into the great beyond, so I'm trying to find a reasonable balance.

In a lot of cases I'm finding the poorly made recordings cost the exact same as far better ones, especially in jazz reissues. So far the balance is the greatest albums have to be at least listenable In a good system, and the rest have to be both affordable and not second rate reissues or remasters. That sounds reasonable, doesn't it? Another thing to consider is, if you've spent a small fortune on equipment, it's kind of a waste to not have source material that brings out the best in your investment. 

Thanks again for all your thoughtful comments. And an aside to Jafant: If you're turning into a thrasher or metal-head, it's not too late. There's still hope.  

Mike 







skyscraper,Some of my favorite K2 jazz re-issues are:
Miles Davis Quintet:
Bag’s Groove
Cookin
’Walkin
’Relaxin’
Workin’
Steamin’
Collectors Items

Bill Evans
:At Shelly’s Manne-Hole
California Here I Come
Everybody Dig’s Bill Evans
New Jazz Conceptions
Explorations

Sonny Rollins Way Out West

Thelonious Monk:
Monk’s Music
Thelonious Alone in San Fran
Plays Duke Ellington
Thelonious Monk Trio

I could go on there are so many but that’s a good start I think.
For MPS they have some great Oscar Peterson recordings:
Hello Herbie
Reunion Blues
Walking the Line
Cd318, it is a shame vinyl records have declined in quality and almost went the way of the dodo. But finding reasonably good recordings in any medium is still something most of us can shoot for without heading towards bankruptcy if out current systems haven't already put us there. 

Itsjustme, there is a lot to sort out and understand about why any recordings sounds the way it does in any given setting, or because of what went into it while recorded or remastered. It's been interesting to learn about that here and other places from those more intimately involved or knowledgeable about the recording process, and those who know the ins and outs of various pressings and mediums.

Mike 
I only want to spend that kind or resources on absolute favorite records. I am filling in the rock and roll and R&B portion of my record and CD collection of artists ranging from the Beatles up through the Sex Pistols. Are there any other well known albums like "Let It Bleed" or "Layla" I should avoid, or might already have, that will need to be purchased or bought again in upgraded formats.
... there is a lot to sort out and understand about why any recordings sounds the way it does in any given setting, or because of what went into it while recorded or remastered. It's been interesting to learn about that here and other places from those more intimately involved or knowledgeable about the recording process, and those who know the ins and outs of various pressings and mediums. 

Okay so here's the deal. There's some really bad offenders in the recording quality area like the Rolling Stones, but even they managed to get a few things right here and there, or so at least I am told. Springsteen is another major offender in the Hall of Fame for Great Music Recorded Badly. 

But mostly this is one to take on a case by case basis. A better approach if you really care about recording quality is to start paying attention to the recording and mastering engineers. If you see Doug Sax The Mastering Lab you know its gonna sound good no matter if its Styx Equinox or Linda Ronstadt and Nelson Riddle.

Its a shame you seem only interested in CD because the only foolproof means I know of obtaining ultra high sound quality is to buy from Better-Records.com which although insanely expensive are also insanely good sound quality. Which has so much good solid info on recordings and sound quality its worth a visit even if you only buy CD.