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Unexpectedly low volume with Schiit Saga + Vidar

Hi all, 

I was hoping someone could shed some insight into what feels like low total volume from my system.   I recently upgraded my amplifier from an NAD 316BEE to a Schiit Saga Plus + Schiit Vidar.  Given the Vidar is fairly dramatically more powerful than the 316 (and weighs about 4x as much), I was really surprised it didn't seem to boost the total volume of the system at all.  I have the knob on the Saga + preamp all the way up and it's solid, but it's a long way from "blow the doors off the place."  I also don't really hear anything out of the speakers until the volume knob on the preamp is to about 11-noon.  

The signal path is as follows: 
Spotify > Airplay > Airport Express > Saga > Schiit > Magnepan MMG.  

Yes, the Spotify / Airplay volume are maxed out, such that I'm feeding as much signal into the Saga as I can.  I have the same issue with my turntable (Rega P2 > Schiit Mani).  I know the MMGs aren't the easiest speaker in the world to drive, but it just really seems like this amp should be able to crank them up to seriously high volumes.  

Thanks for the help!
Alex


aslawson
aslawson OP
9 posts
 
That's fair.  I love the Magnepans.  I think I need to get the Freya rather than the Saga.  
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
Sounds like your analog source before the Saga is too low in gain.
As even with the Saga being unity gain the Vidar is 27db gain and the Maggie although a little low at 86db, you should have enough gain if your source is to Philips/Sony digital Redbook standard of 2v output.
Freya would be an option as it has a bit of gain.
If you know a good tech he could give the Saga some gain, by changing one resistor per channel in the feedback network.

Cheers George
aslawson OP
9 posts
 
My 3 sources I’m using are:
Airport Express DAC via 1/8" > RCA
Google Chromecast Audio via 1/8" > RCA
Rega P2 Turntable > Uturn Pluto Phono Pre > RCA

The airport express DAC outputs at 2v RMS. I’m just really surprised this combination doesn’t result in more output.

How unusual is this issue? Am I delusional thinking I'm going to get ear shattering volumes with the MMGs and the Vidar? Is 12dB of gain from the Freya going to be dramatically different? 
gs5556
1,209 posts
 
You're going from 40 watts to 100 watts, about a 4dB increase. Subjectively, a 10 dB increase in power is what is needed for us to perceive "twice as loud". I hear no perceptive change in loudness between my 200 watt and 100 watt amplifiers at the same volume setting. What you should hear is a better overall balance with the Vidar as it is better able to maintain voltage at lower speaker impedance loads.  
cat_doorman
236 posts
 
Looking up the specs on the NAD shows 39dB gain compared to the Saga+Vidar total of 27. The tube stage on the Freya+ is 12dB so that should put you back to about the same level.
The way I understand it is the gain is an increase in voltage but in order to not distort there needs to be enough available current to support the signal accurately. So a 400W amp with 24dB of gain won’t sound as loud as a 100W amp with 30dB of gain. Sometimes the distortion is what makes it feel loud though. I remember cranking up my first big clean amp and having no clue how loud it actually was compared to the consumer receiver it replaced until I didn’t hear the phone ring. 
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