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Phono Preamp Tube Rush

Is there such a thing as a tube phono stage that doesn't have tube rush? Is it just an inherent weakness of that type of pre or is it some combination of cartridge gain and preamp gain? I went from a silent solid state ASR Basis Exclusive to a Herron VTPH-2A (new home with space limitations) and now I'm using a Hagerman Trumpet with my Decca London Super Gold. Both the Herron and Hagerman have tube rush. The Hagerman beats the Herron in my setup and it really sounds incredible but in quiet passages and between songs, there's that hiss at high-medium and high volume. It's just there. No combination of new tubes, new cables, etc changes this fact. Same with the Herron. Anyone having a different experience with a tube phono preamp?
dhcod
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three_easy_payments
2,097 posts
 
@bigkidz

I have to disagree that the VTPH-2A is a poorly designed unit as it’s incredibly musical, especially at it’s price point. I really love what it has done for my vinyl experience. With that said I do wonder why Keith didn’t use the 6922/6DJ8 in his phonostage which is what he uses in his linestage. It seems noise would be much less of an issue because the EH 6922 is one of the quietest tubes there is for this purpose with ample gain.
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three_easy_payments
2,097 posts
 
@edwyun 

What tubes are you using in the V1, V2, and V5 positions?
dhcod OP
706 posts
 
FYI, When I had my VTPH-2a I noticed no difference in noise between the lowest noise new stock tubes and NOS telefunen 12ax7s and Mazda 12 AT7s. I had the version with the 2 12ax7s and 3 12AT7s. I loved this unit and compared it to a few others that were more expensive and it always won out. When I went with the Decca cartridge though, the Trumpet was doing all the same stuff but with some noticeably extra depth in the sound stage so I made a change. Keith Herron is the best. I still have his line stage and amps.
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edwyun
244 posts
 
@ three_easy_payments

I agree. The VTPH-2A is a very highly regarded and designed unit. Even way above its price point. And very musical. There is unanimity on that.

As for tubes, I eventually found a set of 12AX7 EH tubes that tested and sounded better than the ones I had. It did make a difference. But then I found some NOS Ei tubes and they were even quieter.  I'm using the 12AX7 Ei in V1 and V1 and 12AT7 Ei in V5.
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mijostyn
8,164 posts
 
dhcod, It would take a severely defective tube to cause a 25% decrease in sound quality. I have not used a 12AX7 unit since 1965 and a Dyna PAS 3X but with 6922's the only significant difference between tubes is noise which is much easier to quantify than sound quality. Whatever differences there are in sound quality are marginal at best but having all kinds of crap going on in the background of quiet passages is annoying. I suppose if you only listen to Metal it does not make a difference and besides the tube with those gold pins must sound better. 
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