Sound quality vs. volume


Looking for a bit of expertise here:

I recently made a few changes to my setup and while overall pleased with the results, I’m on the quest for better.  I’m hoping you all can help me diagnose an issue I’m hearing.

When listening to music at lower volume levels - say less than 1/2 total volume, the clarity, imaging and dynamics come across far more coherent and “in focus”.  To use an often over-coined phrase “It’s like I’m there in the room”.  As I start to push the volume up a bit, closer to live-performance levels, the sound becomes increasingly “mushy”.  I know, a highly technical term, but the best way to describe what I am hearing.  The bottom-end loosens up - getting a bit boomy, the crispness of the mid-range and highs fade and the imaging falls out of focus.  These are all incremental with volume until I get to the point where it’s just unbearable.   

I’m no expert by any means but feel it might be room acoustics.  I already know I have a less than ideal setup with a nearly square room (21x20ft) with 60% of the surface covered with clear birch wood paneling. Some things we can’t change (easily).  I do not have any acoustic treatment, just lots of soft furniture.  What I find interesting is that my old setup (Magnepan 1.6) didn’t suffer to such a degree.  Maybe with the new setup there is more to loose?  A mystery.  

For a bit more context:  
Speakers:  Dynaudio Contour 60
Streamer: SoTM sms-200 Ultra
Amplifier: Peachtree Nova500

Within the 20x21ft. room, my speakers are 4ft. from the wall, I am seated 13ft. from the front wall (a bit back from room center). Speakers are 9ft. apart.

Any thoughts?  


wanderingmoo
“It’s what I choose to believe.” - Dr. Elizabeth Shaw, science officer, Prometheus

It didn’t work out too well for her, did it? Mistakes in judgment oft stem from not knowing all of the facts or denial of reality.

”You may think you know what’s going on, Mr. Gittes, but believe me, you don’t.” - Noah Cross to Jake Gittes (Jack Nicholson) in Chinatown.


Excellent recommendations, thank you!

I’ll start with room treatment.  I figured as much but wanted some validation.  WAF is a very real concern so I will have to see what can be done.  The egg-crate look is definitely in the no-fly zone.   If anyone has recommendations on half-reasonably priced, GOOD looking room acoustics drop a recommendation here.  

I did try every variation of the foam plugs that came with the Contours.  Ended up with the bottom port plugged completely and half of the top port sealed. While I like a good solid low-end, these speakers have a full-fat sound.  What I didn’t expect was the imaging and mid-highs to suffer so much but it might all be in my head :-). 

As for the headroom comment, anything is possible but I experienced this with the Maggies years back.  Too little power so I overcompensated with the Nova500.  While I know I could have gone fancy with Naim or Moon, I figured the Nova would hold me over (and the WAF is just off the charts) with enough power.  If anyone seriously thinks my problem lies in the Nova500 I could grab my friends Diablo 300 and give it a try.  Might do that anyway just for fun :-)

If I can’t get the room to cooperate I’ll try a DSP or other gizmo.  In my limited past experience with digital room correction, the results were somewhat boring - making the music a bit sterile if that makes sense.  I’m sure technology has moved along since then.  

If all else fails, I’ll pull out a good pair of cans and call it a day.  

Thanks again, 
Steve 

Nice looking speakers. I think your rear ports primarily, and speaker placement perhaps, combine to create your problem.

Ports are simply to get some extended bass out of a smaller enclosure, not a lot, just a bit more audible extension. Let's the manufacturers publish lower bass response. Demo rooms produce too much bass, but, a brief listen is impressive.

Ports are very room reactive, potential for problems should be considered larger than any potential improvement.

My speakers are very large, internal volume 6 cubic feet, with horns and 15" woofers, very efficient, need very little power to rattle the neighborhood.

Mucho bass, but when younger, I just had to try to port the 15" woofers to get more than anyone else had ever heard from them. Been there, done that, learned from it. I have my rear ports closed now in this room. I used them open in the prior location. Never needed to begin with, but satisfied the itch.

Ports open, closed, knowing what I know now, especially now that good subs exist, I would not buy a ported speaker. Get the best imaging out of the primaries, and if you must, add a sub, play with it's placement. I have a sub in my home theater, and a sub in my office. I get just a little bit, now really aware until you turn them off, that's the way it is supposed to be, same with surround speakers, not too obvious, but, off, the sound 'collapses' into the front.

What I would try:

They need to be away from the corners, but, not equally, say 3 feet from rear wall, only 2, or 4 (not 3) feet from rear wall. An asymmetric corner behind them,

Start farther apart, then toe them in more than you think. left speaker directly facing center listening chair, thus angled quite away from side walls. which is why you can start closer to the side wall than now. same for right. This will give you a very nice wide center effect, as left of center faces right speaker more directly, but is physically closer to left speaker, (opposite side similar) like the DBX do for home theater wide center. 3 people wide can get very nice imaging using this technique. Center is perfect of course, best depth.

Next, you need to angle them up some, so that the bass is not exiting 'flat' to the floor ceiling, and the rear wall. This usually aims the tweeter up, often directed at seated ear height which is best.

Now bass is not too close to rear wall, and angled away from the side walls, and approaches the floor and ceiling differently approaching you, and the floor, ceiling, rear wall will all interact differently.

Cost: Zero. Room Decor: wife stays happy.

A final attempt would be to stuff one or both ports. You could stuff both on left speaker only, move around, learn something, keep messing about. You could close all 4 ports, happily listen, if not enough bass after a period of time, start the search for a sub, and don't try to get too much out of it.

good luck, let us know if any of this works please,

Elliott

oh yeah, I put 3 wheels under mine, and push them into the corners for more space in the rooom when not listening, roll them out some for listening, and roll them out to ideal location for extended focused listening. If it is not easy to re-position speakers, unless a dedicated space, you are stuck with a compromise location usually.
There is one way of separating the system from the room and know for sure "is it system or room?" Set the system up outside in your driveway, far from any walls or boundaries.  Set up your seating position in the same place.  Repeat your tests and see if you get the same audible effects with level.  Its a simple test but an effective one and always a dramatic experience to hear what your [nearly] boundary free system sounds like!  Now you can better identify what is a system problem vs a room problem.  It's much easier to find a fix when you can clearly identify the problem.   Audio problems are so often solved via a process of elimination.   

Like Geoffkait said, there are so many different problems affecting system + room behavior that most of us cannot figure out where to start or where to end.  It's usually beyond us as the science of it is truly complex and overwhelming.  Just from the myriad of answers above it is easy to see that almost any place you start applying a fix yields a difference.  But is this difference better or just different?  That's the real question that is very difficult to answer without some kind of a baseline, a reference of some sort.  

Brad
Lone Mountain Audio
TransAudio Group
ATC USA