Reel to reel

Uberwaltz, what tube buffer did you get? Sounds like fun!

Sleepwalker.
It was just an el cheapo Chinese job bought of ebay, does not even have any brand name on it!
Works just fine for what I wanted though.

Another reason to own a reel. The other day, one of my expensive NOS tubes in my phono pre went belly up, and presently I can't afford another pair; now records are not so impressive.

But there is good news, while the phono pre was cooking on all 8 with the NOS tubes, I recorded to reel at 15 IPS some of my favorite LP's, plus I down loaded to hard drive on the computer my LP collection, so I still have the essence of those NOS tubes, and I can enjoy those records sounding their best.

All things are relative; what I'm speaking of, is the fact that you can go up the ladder but never back down. After I replaced the blown NOS tube with ordinary tubes, records just sounded flat; I can live without the TT until I get some more NOS tubes for the phono pre.

Another example of not being able to go back is my cassette deck; I have one of the top flight decks, and I went to a lot of trouble to get it back in top flight condition, but to no avail. Compared to my other sources, the cassette deck wont cut it; no matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, it's still a pig. I can't get over how good it sounded after I purchased all of that "metal" cassette tape. I'm sure it sounds just as good now, as it sounded then; but cassette good, and reel to reel good are two different "goods".

The bottom line is, what was good yesterday might be "squat" today, you can go up the ladder, but never back down.

orpheus106,112 posts04-18-2019 1:25pm
Gusser, I'm looking forward to hearing about your results. Taking all things into consideration, 7.5 is the best (recording) speed.

Hello All,
My apologies for the late follow up.  A family member passed away and it's been a rough road to recovery, but time heals all wounds and getting better every day.  Music is a universal tonic and has helped to ease my loss significantly through new musical discovery and distraction.

So,.. on to the comparo. 

Well, I received my 15ips master dupe.  Please, don't laugh (much) at my choice of albums..In the defense of my choice I offer the following points.......
Point 1.  it has relevance as I am a bassist and the bass player in this band (Deon Estus) is exceptional and prominent in the rock/pop scene of the 80's.  .
Point 2. the band I was in at the time covered a few of the tunes so I am intimately familiar with the music and know it quite well.
Point 3.  I now have 3 different media sources to compare... the cd, the LP and the 15ips master dupe.  The CD and LP being purchased new back in the day at 80's prices.
Point 4.  The vendor had a springtime sale with free shipping from overseas.      

The album?  Wham!  Make it big....

Ok...I'll wait for the snickering to subside............................

Before I started the comparo of the Wham album, I played a 7" demo tape graciously included by the seller.   I did not recognize the song (still don't know the name of the title) nor the band so had to inquire to the seller who it was.  Much to my surprise, it was Boy George and Culture club. (yup, more pop. Sorry) The bass (a fretless) was so rich and powerful.  Strings, guitars, all instruments were dynamic..Voices .felt like I was in the studio with them. I was in awe...So now my appetite has been whetted (sp?) for the main event comparo.

I loaded the cd into my Cambridge Azure CD player, the LP on my VPI Classic 3 tt and the 10'5" reel (Side A, tape 1 of two tapes) onto the Otari.  I started each one in sequence then sat down with the Yamaha A-S2100's remote in hand.  

To cut to the main take away...The amazing revelation in all this?  I paraphrase Harry Westfield of VPI turntable fame when he described his then-new belt driven Avenger Reference multi-tone arm capable TT, comparing it to an Ampex ATR-102, which he uses extensively as a reference source when designing and testing his TT creations.  

"I am very pleased with the results. I have compared many 45 RPM records to 15 ips 1/2 track tape masters on a Mike Spitz modified Ampex ATR-102, and will not shy away from saying it is 95% direct drive sound for a lot less money and a lot easier repair or replacement."

Again, I paraphrase, and the quote and how it relates to this comparo is a bit of a stretch.  BUT.  That is Exactly how I now feel about LP's (if they are mixed properly and pressed using quality vinyl with high-end lacquers) as compared to a Master dupe....  The 15ips master dupe was amazing in all categories.  BUT, the LP, regardless of the fact it was a 33 1/3 rpm version, rather than a more dynamic 45 rpm version that Harry would have used (fairly sure they didn't make one), has 95% of the Dynamics of the tape.  

But oh, what that extra 5% means to my ears!  Both the Tape AND the LP were so dynamic and revealing, I would have been hard-pressed to differentiate between the two in a blind test comparo.  However, the better sound quality of the tape is undeniable.  Using half of the 1/4" tape's real estate for increased bandwidth provides sonics far superior to any of my 1/4 track tapes.  No doubt.  And the science backs up the audible results

Now please remember I have only listened to the tape once, and only side A. The tape may exceed the LP quality by more than 5%, but only more extensive listening will reveal that.  

The CD?  The mixing engineer should be publicly flogged... absolutely horrible.  Yes, it was produced when CD's were in their infancy and there are some outstanding CD's out there, but this is not one of them. After this comparo, this CD will be stuck far in the back of the CD storage unit, probably never to be played again, unless another comparo is required.  

It was great fun toggling between the 3 sources with the yammie's remote.  And yes, if I could afford $200 (on sale, free shipping from Russia, or the $450+ charged by a USA provider) on a regular basis, I would embrace this media with open arms...but alas, the discretionary income is not there.  Even buying 5 tapes at a 20% discount for $1000 plus shipping is a bit much.  I would prefer to save my pennies for a multi arm capable TT now that I know that my aging ears just can't tell the difference between a high quality audiophile LP and the Master Tape dupe.   

Another benefit of this comparo?  I can say with conviction, the Otari purchase was worth every penny and Master Tape dupe's provide the ultimate in quality listening to the well-heeled R2R owner and music aficionado.  I have heard the two media's side by side, and I have come to the conclusion that LP's can be, as Harry says, 95% of the Master Tape Played on an  Ampex ATR-102, IF the TT is well designed and the LP pressings are of high quality.  So I will save the thousands of $ I would have spent on master tape dupes and save for a multi tonearm capable TT in which to play my growing LP collection.  I will also add a mono tonearm/cartridge to the mix so I can play my mono Beatles LP set the way it was meant to be played (sounds weak when played with a stereo cart).  And a select number of tunes from the LP's will then be recorded with the Otari.  I will continue to purchase master dupes from my overseas provider when funds allow.  I am hooked, without question.  But that part of my collection will grow at a far slower pace than my LP collection.

As Orpheus 10 does, I will use my coveted Otari MX505Bii2 to play the Wham tape and record only my favorite selections from my LP collection at 7.5 ips onto recording the masters SMI911 tape as a compilation collection.  Yeah, I could do it digitally if I had the gear, but something about those 10.5" reels turning at any speed just makes the experience so much more enjoyable,.... similar to the feeling I get when I see the reflection of my bright blue LED tt light projected on the ceiling of the spinning disc when I play an LP.  I have nearly 5tb of hirez music files compliments of an audiophile friend that can be accessed somewhat easily via my SSD ASUS laptop connected to one of 3 stand alone multi-terabyte hard drives, but I get the most joy out of playing R2R tapes, without question, with LP's a close second. 

I am all the wiser as a result of this comparo.  I can now say been there, done that, gonna buy the t-shirt, But I am certainly not an expert. If I have left any important info that would be helpful to those considering entering the ranks of purchasing a capable R2R and pre-recorded Master Tape Duplicates, Please post your questions, and I will do my best to answer them. If not, then perhaps our board members can fill in the blanks I created.  IIRC, isn't that what the OP was looking for?  I am hopeful he (and everyone else) found this comparo helpful. 

Happy listening.
gusser



 

First,I want to offer my sincere condolences for your loss, it's a numbing experience we have all been through.

I enjoyed reading your post, it tracked with my own experiences, minus the master dupe tapes (too rich for my blood). I also concur with 7.5 IPS for recording records.

Always a joy to read about another R2R enthusiast's happy experiences.