I feel bad for speaker manufacturers


Think about it. If you were going to start a company that manufactures audio components, which would you pick? Arguably the worst business to get into would be the speaker business. Right? First, it’s painstakingly hard to market a new speaker that can break through in today’s ultra-competitive environment. Second, the development costs are relatively high because you have to invest in expensive cabinetry (at least on the high end) , electronic components, and drivers. And except for bookshelves, you have to absorb or charge so much more to get your product to your customers because of the relatively large size and heavy weight of the product. Third, and again especially if you have any floor standing speakers of any size, which, let’s be honest, any speaker company that wants to make money will have to have, you have to pay to hump these things to shows around the country and likely internationally as well.

Now let’s compare the life of a cable manufacturer. Let me state up front that I am a big believer that cables, interconnects, digital cables, and power cords can make a big difference in the ultimate sound of an overall system. Tires on a car, right? And yes, they also have several variables to deal with: silver, copper, tinned, dielectric, shielding, connectors, cryogenic, etc. But they’re all small, light, and relatively cheap. You can ship your product for next to nothing with almost no risk of damage, and you can travel to audio shows carrying all of your wares pretty much in a medium-sized backpack. Oh, and then there’s this. While speaker manufacturers are lucky if they can retail their products for four to six times their cost of production, cable manufacturers get to retail their wares for ten, twenty, or even fifty times or more of their manufacturing cost. There’s the well-worn tale of speaker manufacturers coming to shows in a rented minivan while cable manufacturers show up in Ferraris. It’s sad but funny because there’s some truth to it. I credit @erik_squires with generating this thread because in his recent thread he made me think about how hard it is to successfully create and market a truly successful speaker today. Anyway, it almost seems unfair, especially since speakers contribute so much to the ultimate sound of our systems while cables, while crucial, contribute RELATIVELY much less. What say you?
soix

"I'd expect nothing less from you than such a simplistic answer. There's nothing simple or intuitive about Helmholtz resonance or the transconductance of a transistor. There's nothing simple or intuitive about listening for that matter, either."

I've known many people in music and audio that struggle with the concepts and I think that's why I've been doing nothing but music and audio my whole life as a profession. Mechanics and audio comes very natural for me. It's not something I have ever had to do much brain twisting over, it literally is something you know or you don't for those of us who are able to see audio from in between the lines. Combined with schooling it can be a breeze.

This might make some unhappy to hear that it comes easy to me and others but it is what it is. Arguing on an internet forum over what someone can or can not do is a little off the beaten path for me and is why I look at some of these posters as maybe a little on the funny side.

Michael Green

http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/


"It’s NOT something "you do you don’t". I suspect your simplistic understanding of the physics of music is what leads you to think rotating knobs and blocks of wood in a box constitutes tuning. The only means known to effectively tune an instrument or enclosure are to manipulate it’s mass, size, or tension, none of which rotating blocks of wood in a box actually do."

As with your other statements of questioning I’ve shown the forum here that Tuning is exactly what we do and have seen other users come up to verify. The great thing is when those folks here ask questions to attempt to disprove it ends up proving and ultimately leads listeners to the "tune", which of course is my goal.

kosst said

"The only means known to effectively tune an instrument or enclosure are to manipulate it’s mass, size, or tension, none of which rotating blocks of wood in a box actually do."

mg

If you look at the Tuning Bar Technology I use in speaker designing you will see there is a Tuning Bar that runs from one side of the cabinet to the other. I make several types of Tuning Bars at several pitches and tonal range. Kosst above mentions "tension" which is a huge part of my designing. From the outside of the speaker you can see the Tuning Bolts on either sides of the cabinet and in different places on different designs. On the inside are female threaded stationary bars. Going from one side to the other it goes like this. Tuning Bolt, washer (or other Tuning voicer), outside cabinet wall, soft pulp (or other material), inside cabinet wall. Then the bar runs to the other side doing the reverse. Bar, innerwall, pulp, outerwall washer and bolt head. Folks can see the construction on TuneLand with pictures and diagrams and more explanation of the tone and timbre controlling, but to answer Kosst’s comments yes as the Tuning Bolts are threaded into the internal Tuning Bar.  One can apply more or less tension to adjust the tone of the cabinet. These speakers literally are acoustical instruments.

Nothing spins on the inside as kosst has alluded, but that's ok I understand this is a new technology for him and he is exploring this like anyone else. I also do want you to know kosst, I appreciate Q&As that have relevance to topics and more than happy to have you come to TuneLand to discuss things on a deeper level. The Agon forum is not really a technical forum, but that shouldn't stop people from visiting both sites to see how deep someone may want to go. It's all good and even though some start off as doubting toms at first it's fun when the commonalities start to happen.

Michael Green

http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/

To be honest coming from a guy who has been following Michael's ways and have been using his products for well over 5 years or so i can attest to his technologies and its methodology. They work exactly as how Michael describes it, please feel free to visit my personal thread on the TuneLand Forum. 

The only means known to effectively tune an instrument or enclosure are to manipulate it's mass, size, or tension, none of which rotating blocks of wood in a box actually do.
According to how the ear works, either will work just as effectively.
Humans and their ears are not weighted and utilized like an engineering based measurement system.

The measurement (as we know and use it) and the ear's method of hearing --- are only vestigially related.