How much do I need to spend to get a preamp that sounds better than no preamp?


Hello all.
I'm using an Audible Illusions L1 preamp and I think my system sounds better when I remove it from the signal path. Oppo BD105 directly to SMC Audio DNA1 Gold power amp. I have read that there is level of quality you need to hit before there will be an improvement in sound. I can't seem to find what that level is. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Ben
honashagen
Post removed 


Go and have another drink, so you pass out, because you really are becoming obnoxious.
@georgehifi "BTW: are you a "fuser"?
I think I may have seen you be pro fuses in posts and what "magic" they can do ."

Before we get started on that tangent, you continue to skirt responsibility for your Stereophile mistake. Again, simple question, are you man enough?

I am NOT a fuser. That said, I am NOT anti, either. And though I will take the time to answer your question, specifically, I generally stay out of the discussion, and will continue doing so.

A dozen years ago, a friend from China who sometimes visited, and as a prince of a guest, always bearing gifts, handed me a pack of what appeared as fuses with silver caps and what he claimed a superior wire inside. He stressed their benefit. I thanked him, and after he returned home from his visit, threw the pack in the drawer, and never looked at it since.

So unlike most who enter the debate, I don’t fall into either camp. Honestly, I don’t really care one way or the other. I’m not buying any fuses, nor am I begrudging anyone who does and finds happiness with them. In fact, I feel happy about their improvement. From the incessant back and forth, I think it’s clear jerks exist on both sides of the fence who never tire of arguing, insulting the other side, and posting the same statements ad infinitum. With a few exceptions, I haven’t read a post from either side in months that I found interesting or adding to the debate.

But I do hold out the ** POTENTIAL ** for fuses to improve the sound of a component.

Having worked as a material science engineer / chemist who researched and developed electronic (like conductors and resistors) materials for the household names in this industry like Vishay, Dale, CTS, Ohmite, and on and on, I know small differences in formulations, compositions, manufacture, and treatment can impart meaningful differences in the performance of an end product. For example, though there is a relatively small difference in the percentage of carbon delineating cast iron from steel, we all feel it obvious the end products differ greatly. If I still worked in that field, this whole thing would be very easy to sort out from a purely objective standpoint. I’d buy a bunch of fuses (not at $150 or more, of course), perform a slew of chemical / metallurgical analyses and electrical measurements including scanning electron micrographs, X-Ray diffraction, hot / cold (MILSPEC) thermal cycling, high voltage breakdown, high temperature accelerated aging, etc., measuring resistivity and other factors all the way and comparing them to two or three standard fuses like Bussman, LittleFuse, etc. to find out what, if any differences exist. Or, even if the materials and metallurgical treatments and hence, performance were identical. As I’ve said, I know of no high-end audio company capable of assessing the nature and objective performance of these fuses, though I do feel groups exist within companies that skirt the audiophile realm as part of their infinitely larger businesses otherwise like Samsung, Matushita, Sanyo, Sony could, even if the desire to doesn’t exist.

On the audio and guitar side of power supplies, many have heard and measured the effects of transformers, tube rectifiers, diode rectifiers / bridges, capacitors, resistors, chokes, almost all of which engender very little doubt or debate in terms of their effectiveness. I do find incredibly interesting and even passionate discussion when it comes to topics like Pi filters versus choke input power supplies, grain oriented versus amorphous transformer cores, the myriad alloys used in transformer cores, paper versus plastic transformer bobbins, directly versus indirectly heated rectifiers, the advantages of fast recovery diodes, "better" capacitors and increasing their size, how big a capacitor you can use directly after the rectifier, how many stages of filtering work best, wirewound versus metal oxide resistors, etc. Maybe that’s because so many of the folks involved in this chase spend a good amount of effort measuring, documenting, sharing, and discussing their findings, as opposed to selling something?

It did take a long time for me to get here. As a trivial example, I used to hear a lot about rolling a tube rectifier, and I dismissed all of it. Presuming they both test fine, how or why would one sound different from another? They’re not in the signal path, all they do is rectify the incoming AC. Well, trying different rectifiers made me a believer. They do sound different, and some clearly sound better than others.

However, when folks claim improvements that seem ridiculous, those people come across as just that, ridiculous. For example, an extra octave of bass response. Someone actually believes a fuse can lower the 40 or 50 Hz low-end roll-off of their system to 20 or 25 Hz??? Also, while I don’t push people on measurements, as most lack the capability, ability, and knowledge, I feel it the responsibility of manufacturers (or, are they just sellers?) to spend the time, money, and effort on documenting and making available the reasons their products can provide the sort of improvement that justifies a sale. I realize the guy who posts here 24 / 7 playing the Wizard now flat out recommends no one should provide information or explanation on a tweak they market. As in the other audio discussion forums, his opinion would never be given another thought, folks here actually engage him, and pander to his self-proclaimed guru status. No, what could have provided some meaningful benefit was when the manufacturer of the specific fuse a thread focused on showed up, and instead of actually taking part in a meaningful discussion, or shining any light on the situation, simply said keep calm, carry on, and ignore the other side.

From a distance I think I’m probably not the only one who feels curious as to what these fuses are made of, though not enough to take any action. As I said, if I had access to the equipment of my past, I would uncover that. Perhaps, few would care. I’ve watched over the past 20 years, the concept of value has evaporated from so much of this hobby. I once discovered one of the more well-known interconnect ($1400/meter) and loudspeaker cables of the past as simply a readily available CATV product costing 62 cents a foot. As it stands, I don’t know why people don’t test these fuses in their component. They could take voltage and current measurements, and someone could even look at things through a scope, throughout the power supply, comparing it with a typical fuse.

So in the end, while not a fuser, I’m not an anti-fuser. Given what I’ve experienced with material science and power supplies, I think it’s certainly possible a fuse could improve a component’s sound. In fact, I feel it is REASONABLE. But it’s not something that I think about, worry about, or much care about
@kosst_amojan,I used Signal Cable's Silver Resolution as well as Clear Day cables for the BT unit, not the ones that came with the unit.
@georgehifi ,I have nothing against passives. In fact I have been using TVC for the past 9 years. You bring up Nelson Pass's statement that we have enough gain in today's sources to drive power amplifier. Yet he keeps coming with new preamps. There must be some reason for that - besides the "making money factor". I feel that audio is a personal choice and "how" a system sounds is a personal preference. With my upgraded loudspeakers, I am tempted to try a active in my system. Why? Because my new loudspeakers have better resolution. And I am hearing stuff that my old speakers never showed before. I would like to see how an active preamp works in my system.

Back to the original q - I had to pay ca 4 k dollars  to get a preamp better than the direct input from my Aesthetix Io phono stage. Einstein The tube mk 2. Bought second hand. Have not looked back.