Which watts are the right watts in SS amps?


Hello Sports Fans!

More than a few people over the years on these pages have said only those SS amps which double down in output power as impedance drops are truly special or worthy amps. Eg., 200 @ 8ohms; 400 @ 4 ohms; 800 @ 2 ohms; etc.

Not every SS amp made does this trick. Some very expensive ones don’t quite get to twice their 8 ohm rated power when impedance halves to four ohms. BAT, darTZeel, Wells, and Ypsalon to name just a few.

An amps ‘‘soul’’ or it’s ‘voice’ is the main reason why I would opt in on choosing an amp initially and keeping it. Simultaneously , I’d consider its power and the demands of what ever speakers may be intended to be run with it or them.

I’ve heard, 80% of the music we are listening to is made in the first 20wpc! I’m sure there’s some wisdom in there somewhere as many SS amps running AB, are biased to class A Only for a small portion of the total output EX. 10 – 60 wpc of 150 or 250 wpc.

After all, any amps true output levels are a complete mystery when anyone is listening to music anyhow.

I suspect, not being able to actually measure true power consumption, the vast majority of listening sessions revolve around 60wpc or so being at hand with traditional modern reasonably efficient speakers.

Sure, there are those speakers which don’t fit into the traditional loudspeaker power needs mold such as panels or electrostats, and this ain’t about them.

The possibility of clipping a driver is about the only facet in amp to speaker matching which gives a person pause while pondering this or that amplifier.

I feel there is more to how good an amp is than its ability tou double output power with 50% drops in speaker impedance.

However, speakers are demanding more power lately. Many are coming out of the gates with 4 ohm ‘nominal’ IMPs which lower with fluctuations in frequency. Add in larger motors on larger drivers, multiple driver arrays, and on paper these SOTA speakers appear to need more power.

IMHO It is this note which introduces great concern.

I’ve read every article I can find on Vienna Acoustics Music. Each one says give them lots of watts for them to excel.

Many times good sounding speakers I’ve owned sounded better with more power, albeit from arguably a better amp.

I tend to believe having more than an adequate amount of cap power is indeed integral. … naturally the size and type of transformers in play possess a strong vote for an amps ability to successfully mate with speakers.

Controlling a driver’s ability to stop and restart is as well a key to great sound and only strong amplifiers can manage this feat. Usually this gets attributed to ‘damping’ factor, but damping as I read it is more a shadow than a tangible real world figure as it depends on numerous factors. Speaker cable length alone can alter damping factors.

A very good argument exists about those mega watt amps voices. Each 500 or 600 wpc amp or amps, I’ve heard have had stellar voices too, not merely more watts.

So is it predominately these mega watt power house amps souls or their capacities that fuels the speakers presentation?

Would you buy an ‘uber expensive’ amp based more on its voice or soul, than on its ability to output loads of watts, even if you feel the amp may be somewhat under powered for the application?

Choosing this latter option also saves one money as the more powerful amps do cost more than their lower outputting siblings.

Please, share your experiences if possible.

Tanks muchly!

blindjim
We really need to know which speakers you want to power before we can give opinions on which amps would be well suited for them. There are too many variables to give opinions on amps and speakers in general.
Exactly what I was trying to get across, the loading of the speakers impedance is just as if not more important than the wattage, but he and others seem obsessed by a wattage fetish. 

Cheers George 

'..on paper, a 91db sensitive speaker should develop 91db SPL at one meter (about 40 inches) with one full watt without room reinforcement.'

True if speakers are 8 ohm but for 4 ohm speakers the number is more like 88 dB (91-3).

Thanks for the concerned thoughtful input so far. It is sincerely appreciated.

Sorry. My bad.

I’ve been speaking in general terms as no actual decision has been made yet as to which amps or which speakers are getting married.

Given the fact I’m doing a lot of research and a goodly bit of speculating, and am flexible on which ones to pair up, I felt only certain parameters were necessary for determining the range of suitable power for a given load and specific speaker brands & models were not concerns

I listed the amps which intrigue me. All of which push at least 200wpc into 8 ohm loads. Most will at least say they’ll double with imp halving except BAT & ypsalon. Some offer 300wpc at 8 ohms.

Gryphon lands outside normal amp criterium with their dual mono amps base model pushing 150 @ 8, hteir middle unit is 160wpc @ 8; and their top model which is likely well off the table for me, is 175 wpc @ 8, and all double into 4, and then again into 2, and Gryphon boasts doubling continues into 0.5 ohms at 5K wpc in their top unit. All models offer Class A operation in 3 variable stages of 25, 50, or fully Class A, more or less in each amp, respectively. Slight variations occur depending upon model or better said, $$$$$..

Curiously, the two I envy most have reported similarities in their power outputs into 4 ohms at 320wpc. Ypsalon Alieus and Gryphon Coloseum. However, ONLY Gryphon is actually doubling as Impedance halves. Ypsalon does not. As well, both have more than substantial banks of reserves in their Cap storage. More than substantial.

In no real order the speaker short list is:
KEF blades, I & II, either or.
VA Listz or Music either or.
Wilson Sabrinas, Sashas, either or
TAD Evolution one

Longshots if found used:
Magico S5 latest ver?
Lanch 7?
Wilson XLS ?
YG ?
Eggelston Ivy, andrea II & III.

Of current production, I bleive all are 4 ohms. TAD & Wilson are lowest sens at 88 & 87db, respectively.
ONLY Egg Andreas are above the 4 ohm barrier. The balance of the lot are 90 – 91db.

Party level listening is NOT my gig. As said. Maybe a song or two now and then. Usually I’m reasonably sane and do not push things I’ve paid a lot of money for unless you can pour fuel into them… and those days, sadly are well behind me..

LP is usually set in an equilateral triangle and speakers are normally 8ft. apart, give or take a few inches. This will change but not quickly so it would be a decent rule of thumb..

Hope this helps.


I don't know about the Music, but I've heard the Liszt driven by Ayre's 60-watt integrated, and they sounded great.  Even better, needless, to say, with Ayre's 125 watt integrated, which is what my local dealer likes to use to demo those speakers.
Sorry @georgehifi , what is EPDR? 

I looked at the Stereophile measurements (which I do trust, unlike the subjective reviews), and while pretty bad for a full-range dynamic speaker, I only see a drop to 2 Ohms in the bass, with a moderate phase angle:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-audio-specialties-alexia-loudspeaker-measurements

This is certainly an example of a hard-to-drive speaker however.