Audiophiles are not alone


In the current (May 13th-19th, 2017) edition of the Economist there is a short piece entitled "Violins" that I want to bring to your attention.  It is about new violins and old violins, specifically Cremonese (Guarneri, Stradivari, Amati) vs. Joseph Curtin (modern violin maker in Michigan).  With Dr. Claudia Fritz of the University of Paris, presiding, experiments were held in Paris and New York that proved to the majority of both musicians and listeners (other musicians, critics, composers etc.) that new fiddles out performed old ones.  There were some sort of goggles used so that the players could not tell what instrument they were playing.  The audience was also prevented from seeing the instruments somehow.  All this done without inhibiting sound transmission.  Both solo and orchestrated works were performed.  You can read the whole story in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.  And this is only the latest evidence of this apparent reality, as according to the article, similar experiments have reached similar conclusions prior to this.  The article concluded with the observation that these results notwithstanding, world class players are not about to give up their preference for their Cremonese fiddles.

This reminds me very much of some of our dilemmas and debates such as the ever popular: analog vs. digital, tube vs. transistor, and subjective listening vs. measured performance parameters.  If it has taken a couple of hundred years and counting for the debate on fiddles to remain unresolved, what hope have we to ever reach resolutions to some of our most cherished and strongly held preferences?  This is asked while hugging my turntables and tube electronics.
billstevenson
Dear @lewm : What kind of measurements are you waiting for?

Example: wat kind of measurements can help to tell somebody why he dislike Celine Dion singer?

Maybe you have some singer or whatever kind of music or one specific composition you dislike. Have you measurements to explain it?

What am I missing from your post?

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC and not DISTORTIONS,
R.
Dear @frogman : """  This kind of test proves very little other than the fact that, yes, there are good modern instruments being crafted today. """

I think that proves more than that because some of those new instruments outperforms the old very well regarded ones.


""" 
the reason that these tests are pretty pointless, is that finding that "sweet spot" does not happen in minutes or even hours    """

why pointless?, the tests goes in both directions: new ones and old ones and in exactly the same enviroment with no advantage to either instrument.

In the other side a more in deep test, this is more time is not possible to do it because the tests can takes over a year and impossible that over the time the players moods stay the same.

As a fact the tester leaders ask to the first rate soloist how much time they think will need it and they coincided that 50 minutes. The tests took two 75 minutes sessions.

Here are some high ligths about:


""" Significance

Some studies open new fields for investigation; this study attempts to close a perennially fruitless one—the search for the “secrets of Stradivari.” Great efforts have been made to explain why instruments by Stradivari and other Old Italian makers sound better than high-quality new violins, but without providing scientific evidence that this is in fact the case. Doing so requires that experienced violinists demonstrate (under double-blind conditions) both a general preference for Old Italian violins and the ability to reliably distinguish them from new ones. The current study, the second of its kind, again shows that first-rate soloists tend to prefer new instruments and are unable to distinguish old from new at better than chance levels.


 Abstract

Many researchers have sought explanations for the purported tonal superiority of Old Italian violins by investigating varnish and wood properties, plate tuning systems, and the spectral balance of the radiated sound. Nevertheless, the fundamental premise of tonal superiority has been investigated scientifically only once very recently, and results showed a general preference for new violins and that players were unable to reliably distinguish new violins from old. The study was, however, relatively small in terms of the number of violins tested (six), the time allotted to each player (an hour), and the size of the test space (a hotel room). In this study, 10 renowned soloists each blind-tested six Old Italian violins (including five by Stradivari) and six new during two 75-min sessions—the first in a rehearsal room, the second in a 300-seat concert hall. When asked to choose a violin to replace their own for a hypothetical concert tour, 6 of the 10 soloists chose a new instrument. A single new violin was easily the most-preferred of the 12. On average, soloists rated their favorite new violins more highly than their favorite old for playability, articulation, and projection, and at least equal to old in terms of timbre. Soloists failed to distinguish new from old at better than chance levels. These results confirm and extend those of the earlier study and present a striking challenge to near-canonical beliefs about Old Italian violins.   """


Those result over more than one study are really interesting and maybe unexpected. The facts are there, any other conclusions from our part is a theoretical and pointless because you was not one of those players and never pass through thse tests.


Of course no one likes that a 2KK dolar instrument suddenly was outperformed for a " penautus " instrument and if I'm the owner of that 2KK instrument I can't accept the results of those tests. The proud feelings that has a Stradivarius owner does not counts in those tests and has no value at all.


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS,

R.





The ONLY science that matters in music is neuroscience .
Every human is an unique organic being who hears what they hear not a piece of wood .
If you can’t hear what a Strad really is ,an act of love made by a lover to serve the love supreme,
it’s not due to what you "hear" .
And the fact you happen to be a musician has no bearing on the matter .
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