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Upgrade Opinions, Thorens vs VPI

I'm looking to possibly upgrade to a better turntable.

My current setup is a Thorens TD166 MKII with the original tp11 tonearm. The table has a few mods including a solid cherry plinth and birch bottom with sorbothane feet. It also came with the 10mm spindle bearing, same one used on the TD160.

Amp: Rogue audio Sphinx 
Preamp: MM preamp built into the Sphinx
Cartidge: Shure M97xe with SAS stylus
Speakers: Monitor Audio Silver 8

The components listed above are my recent upgrades. I now think my table is due for an upgrade. 

I am considering installing a Jelco SA750D tonearm on my Thorens, since the tonearm is likely the weakest performing part of the table, or going with a completely new table.

I am considering the following tables:

Rega Planar 3 (possibly not a big leap?)

Rega RP8

VPI Classic 1 

Acoustic Signature Wow XL with Rega arm.

I am leaning toward the VPI, partly because I really like its look, but I do want the best sounding table under $3000 (subjective I know). Overall, I'm pleased with the current sound from my Thorens, so maybe the best bang for my buck would be a new tonearm. Some members have claimed that a Debut Carbon will blow the doors of a TD166, but in my personal experience, it's the opposite. So I'm thinking I'd probably need to spend over 1K for a real sonic upgrade over my Thorens.

Anyone have experience with VPI tables versus Thorens TD16X series? Any advice is welcome.
helomech
helomech OP
1,487 posts
 
Raymonda,
 I already have a cruise control. I think it made a very slight improvement. I just began disassembly of the table this morning, so it's not very photogenic at the moment. I will post pics when the mod is complete. Right now it has the resin subplatter with 10 MM bearing. I'm considering getting the zinc subplatter, but I would think it might be more prone to ringing...maybe you have some insight on the matter?


raymonda
855 posts
 
Buy some Dynamat and apply it to the underside of the table. It does a great job of damping resonance. 

I'm sure it is a looker and, if particular care is given to modding, it will sound very good. My experience tells me that after upgrading you tonearm, and where you are at, an improvement in your cartridge and phono stage will be more noticeable than an upgrade to your table. 
Trust me, that an amazing difference will occur after your arm is swapped out.

Enjoy your journey. In the end that is really what it is all about.
helomech OP
1,487 posts
 
Thanks Raymonda.

I've already done the Dynamat mod to the underside areas. I will probably get the reproduction Super top plate from VN as well. 


bondmanp
1,782 posts
 

helomech: I too use a Thorens 166 MkII that I purchased new in 1984. It has been modded by K-Works with adjustable racketball feet, new RCA cables, and damping to the platter.  I also added a K-Works Ersamat and KAB record clamp. I have 2 tonearm wands, one with an Ortofon OM-30 and one with a Denon DL-160. As far as the sound goes, there is obviously better out there, but needle-drops I bring to my local audio club generally get a lot of compliments, and they tend to sound a lot better than the standard commercial CDs of the same recording (I use a Marantz pro-sumer CD recorder via the MM phono section in my McIntosh C220 preamp).


FWIW, I asked a similar question to the Stereophile panel at the New York Audio Show in 2014. The answers were as you would expect - Michael Fremer (IIRC), who is not a big fan of suspended ’tables, suggested a non-suspended ’table in the $1500 price range. Art Dudley, who enjoys suspended ’tables, suggested I keep the Thorens if I liked it.


I also asked the same question a couple of years ago to the sales manager at VPI (he is no longer there, I believe). He said to get a Traveller (which was a current model at the time) and never look back.


In the end, due to falling income and general happiness with the Thorens as it is, I decided to stick with the old reliable TD 166 Mk II.


If you can, try to have someone bring over a VPI or other non-suspended turntable and try it in your system with you records.

helomech OP
1,487 posts
 
Bondmanp,

Thanks for the input. I haven't heard of Kworks but I'll look them up. I've owned a couple relatively inexpensive non suspended tables and a suspended Pioneer PL55x. The Pioneer was very good, I almost regret selling it, but I didn't care for its look. 

I owned a Debut Carbon that doesn't hold a candle to the Thorens, but the debut is considered entry level. The main bearing is about 1/3 the diameter. 

My Pioneer PLX1000 direct drive sounds very good, especially for the $400 I paid for it used. My TD166 has a more fluid sound which I prefer with some music. The Pioneer excels with electronic music...go figure. Some have claimed that the Pioneer can hold its own against some VPIs, even a Scout.

I will likely make the drive to Acoustic Sounds to listen to a VPI, but I'm afraid they'll have it hooked up to a much better system. Maybe they'll be willing to swap components. 

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