Sources for information and/or advice on dedicated AC lines desired
I have relocated, and the new house will allow me to at long last have dedicated AC power lines in the music listening room. Halleluiah! I’ve seen the topic discussed over the years, and have a general idea of what is needed, but can I get recommendations of sources of information about the details of what the optimum power and wiring system is, and exactly what to have done by a professional electrician (in the event that is necessary) to achieve it? And/or personal advice on wiring and power sources (excluding power conditioners---I mean just raw power. I already have Shunyata and Bybee units for conditioning) required for optimum sound quality? For instance:
- How many separate lines from the main panel to the room? Separate lines for sources vs. amps, analog vs. digital? My system sources are LP, analog tape, digital, and FM radio. Three tube pre-amps, a couple of tube and three SS power amps. And ESL speakers and powered subs also needing AC, of course.
- Amperage advisable for each line? 20 Amps?
- What to look for to determine if the already-installed wire is sufficient? And if it is not, the type and gauge of wire to have installed? 10g Romex?
- Grounding---metal rod into the earth?
- Anything else of concern not listed above.
Thanks for any recommendations of sources of information. Personal recommendations and/or advice also welcomed!
Not sure if this is against forum rules or not, but there was a very informative thread on a different forum on this topic http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/dedicated-lines-1-use-isolated-grounds-or-not-2-subpanel-wirin... |
I went through this back in around 2006 or 7 and got some great technical/code sorts of insights from a few contributors far more knowledgeable than me. I gave all of it to my electrician to review, and it helped. Here’s what I know: I wouldn’t use existing wiring, would use 20 amp lines with correspondingly heavy gauge wire, would have an electrical contractor that gets the inspector to permit/ approve it (and if possible, somebody who has had experience wiring stuff for studios or halls). Unless you have the ability to get a completely separate service for your system, you are, as far as I know, going to be sharing ground with the household system, which has the potential for noise. There are tricks about which leg, etc. but the idea of a big-assed isolation transformer is a good one. Do more outlets and lines than you think you need- way cheaper in the long run than having to break walls and have a new mess on your hands (with all your delicate gear, records, etc. whatever already in place). I have an Equi=Tech big box sitting in storage- I thought I’d be relocated by now; there are some specialty panels made by audiophile companies, but I suspect the real hands-on folks may say Square D brand or equivalent is fine (that’s what’s currently being used in my NY house, 60 amp subpanel, plus a 240 volt line for one isolation/step down plus an additional isolation transformer for my tone arm air compressor). I’d look at electric as part of an overall plan for the room- are you doing separate air conditioning system- Mike L followed certain practices used for studios to keep air rush quiet; also, I’d think about whatever current state of the art is in filtration to minimize dust but that’s a peeve of mine; lay-out for signal cable routing; lighting and how that relates to electrical- lights can be noisy; I actually got rid of my AC conditioning boxes once I put in the dedicated lines, I thought the system sounded better without conditioning; I’m sure there are other things I can’t thing of now, but happy to talk, I’ve been sketching out my new "room" for several years, in the process of waiting to relocate. My plan is still a separate structure and build-out from whatever house we buy or build and its electrical system, i.e. separate service to the "studio" which can also be a zoning/code issue; Oh, structural- springy floors suck though you can deal w/ that; noise suppression- I never thought about sound proofing, but did it for my compressor room, which is adjacent to the listening room, used mass loaded vinyl. That stuff is crazy heavy and there’s some good stuff about how to best use it if you are open to the studs. I didn't do built in treatment in my listening room, but aftermarket bass traps, diffusion and some absorption. Mike L. probably has one of the more over the top rooms in the States and I know he's refined what he originally had done after living with it for some years, so he'd be good to talk to and is a nice fellow. And a comfy chair. Like the Spanish Inquisition. :) |
Great, thanks fellas. Your insights and referrals have given me a good start. So far I have concluded to proceed thusly: - Verify the availability of empty spaces on the electrical panel (there is no sub-panel; it's just a moderately-sized three bedroom house) in which to install four 20A lines of 10g Romex wire (dgarretson, I'll check into the Cardas), each terminated in a duplex outlet---one for analog sources, one for digital, one for power amps, and a fourth for the remotely-located ESL's and subs). Sufficient? Ghosthouse, you state you had three duplex outputs put on the end of each line; so if I use the already existing outlet wall locations, I can have more than one outlet on each line? That sounds good, because the left and right channel ESL's and subs are of course on opposite sides of the room from each other, therefore obviously needing to be on different outlets (or really long power cords!). - Alternatively, would the benefit of having a sub panel installed (feeding only the music room) justify the cost to do so?. Does a sub panel provide a good amount of isolation from noise-causing appliances (heater and air-conditioner, washer/dryer, computers) on the main panel? - No separate ground needed; in fact, not a good idea (or, apparently legal!). I'm not going to go crazy with this, just basic, like you ghosthouse. I'm becoming more bothered by noise as I get older, plus my system is more transparent than ever. Whart, the only negative in this house is a suspended wood floor; I've been on a concrete slab for years now, which I love. On the other hand, far less seismic activity up here in the NW compared with S. California! The equipment will be located by an exterior wall, the stiffest part of a suspended floor, but I'll get under the house and jam some 4 X 4's between the ground and floorboards. Thanks for the link Erik (love that spelling---wish my parents had used it instead of a "c"!). The music room itself already sounds good, with no flutter echo (and I haven't put in my 13 ASC tube traps yet), and it's 15' width will allow me to set up my Tympani T-IV's. I'm stoked! Ghosthouse, I too thought of checking with my new local high end shops (I already miss Brooks Berdan, Ltd., his son Brian Berdan at Audio Elements, and Randy at Optimal Enchantment) for an electrician recommendation, and paid a visit to Pearl Audio in downtown Portland yesterday morning. Store hours on their website and storefront window state they open at 10:00 AM. I waited until 11:00, when I had to leave. Uh oh, not a good sign. |
I’m also in Portland OR and just gone through build out of my room (details in my system description) i think you have most of it but please consider one line for each channel so you can support monoblocks later on. Personally I still use my SR Powecells so only actually use two of my five lines but never hurts to have them. I also installed a Torus WM 75 transformer to isolate the system from the rest of the house, not cheap but very effective. There are also other tricks like using an Environmental Protections EP 2775 ground filter to help isolate from ground noise, again details in my system description unfortunately the hi if dealers her in Portland are not what you are used to in LA, I still do most of my business with the folks I used to work with, but Jonathan Tinn at Chambers Audio has some excellent lines and very good service. Send me a private email if you’d like to check out the system some time and see how I approached the issues you have. I may also be able to recommend an electrician you could use |
