What's a contender to an Audio Reference 5 SE?

I am not against tubes, I used tubes as well in the past. I auditioned many sets with tubes what I liked a lot.

The only remark I made is that when the sound becomes more complete the quality and even the emotion in music can reach a higher level.

Our focus is more on sound and image. We use the properties of brands and products to create 'our' sound.

We create 'our' sound by Total Sound. This means that we collect and combine all the different properties togheter.

So what is 'our'sound?

Our sound is an intimate 3 dimensional image what is build from a black center with a very involving and diverse middle freq.

You also can use tubes for the way we work. I think you create a better end result in sound when you use SS and tubes togheter!

Just a general question.

What does Plinius recommend as a compatible pre-amp to use with their amp?

That to me is a really good metric to use also. and a good place to start looking/listening.

Of course there are pre-amps that are better than the AR REF 5SE just like there are many that aren't.

First, are you taking used? I guess you are since the 5SE is discontinued. So, the price point within the test range should be the used (blue book) price for a REF 5SE. I would bet a lunch, that you would be really hard pressed to find a pre-amp, used or new that can out perform the used REF 5SE within that price point.

So, are we talking apples to apples? or apples to oranges?

It is decidedly unfair to compare components within different price points.

This is why AR has the REF 10 and 40th anniversary editions. They are better than the 5SE.

So, when you take what everyone has said previously, keep in mind what your price point/range really is. I would also bet that if Ralph (Atmosphere) threw away the budget, he could design/build a pre-amp that would absolutely kill the REF 5SE. Hell, I would even bet that his current pre-amp at that level is close to or better than the REF 5SE.

Engineering is engineering.

I could list many pre-amps that I believe are better than the REF 5SE, but at that price point, it would be much harder. But, they still exist.

enjoy, but set a price point (used or new) and listen for yourself).

@bo1972 Ok, ok.  Your points are more than well documented by now.  You are now just bothersome.  You might be a nice enough person but here you're coming off condescending and rude.  I would be happy if you just moved on, please.  You are having 100% no bearing on my decision. 

@minorl Oddly enough Plinius recommends their own brand.  The price point was pretty much set when I asked for contenders TO the 5SE.  Sure, I would consider used.  So if the 5SE sells for $13k new I would like other recommendations somewhere in that range.  Then I would consider used of those same brands/models, ergo "apples to apples".

@minorl I wish it were as simple as "listen for yourself".  For some of us that is simply not possible.  There is no place to do that, and certainly not in my own space with my own gear.  That's why we wade through all of this and try to make the best decision we can before we vote with our $.

Smoke, Mirrors and Evasion!!!