Soundstage...How to determine what's right?

Here is a link that which explains what audio engineers do to drums

Is it any wonder that so very few recordings sound realistic and like live music?

If you want something that sounds like live music with excellent soundstage (if your system can handle it - note the warning about drum transients in the link above) then try the Sheffield Labs Drum Track test CD. If you have trouble convincing yourself that there is a real drum kit in the room then your system has "congestion" and the depth of your soudstage will be limited to a more laid back or more distant presentation (not necessarily bad as many people enjoy listening to classical concerts from the first balcony - a less intense or dynamic sound than front row center).

There are a wide variety of mic technics in use by engineers that yield just as many variations in sound stage reproduction. The quality of the pressing or burning is also a factor. I bought a Columbia CD of 'Amused to Death' by Roger Waters based on the effects that were on the one my son has. The sound stage produced on our systems extended solidly from at least 90 degrees to the left or right of our listening positions and many feet back of the speakers. The disc that I bought had none of the sound stage or dynamics that his did(absolutely no depth/everything between the speakers). Same label, same title, same bar code. That much variation between otherwise identical discs(yes- we A/B'd them on both systems). I returned it!! By utilizing a test CD you are using an established "constant" or "standard" that has been measured and your system can be compared to/graded by/adjusted or tweeked according to. How can using any recording of an event that you did not personally attend give you ANY indication AT ALL if your system is faithfully reproducing the original venue? I'm assuming that faithful reproduction of the musical info on your source material is your goal. I tend to trust the experts when I choose a standard, hense my collection of Stereophile/Chesky/Sheffield Labs/etc. test CDs and pressings. Funny thing: how well my system performs with all of them, as well as the recordings I've been personally involved with. The only "minefield" is trying to find labels that are conscientious about their recording/manufacturing processes, and record the jazz and blues I enjoy. Oh- Try 'Dead Can Dance-Into the Labyrinth', recorded 4 track/A/D, in a huge(The Quivvy) church. Huge sound stage/natural reverb effects. Very strange music(new Zealand/Irish flavored).

Rodman99999, This is probably not the time or place for a discussion of recording abberations such as you have described, so I'll keep it short. From what you have discribed the recording with the super wide sound stage had a lot of out of phase info added into the mix. It's just NOT possible for a stereo system to produce sound, on the plane of the speakers, outside the speakers when the sound from both speakers is in phase AND your speakers are set up properly. Thats my story and I'm going to stick with it! :-)

That's exactly how the effect is generated! Carver did that back in the 80's with his "Sonic Hologram Generator" which was an interesting experiment, but otherwise an acoustic nightmare(distroyed any semblance of music). On the CD (Amused To Death) the effects are generated in the digital domain and quite interesting. On the start of one cut a horsedrawn wagon begins clinking and clattering to the left, and over your shoulder and ends it's journey seemingly yards beyond your right speaker. The first cut has a very low level dog barking to the three o'clock of my listening position, which makes it sound like the dog is outside my window in the yard. In 1981 I had a pair of LS3-5A's that I had built with KEF drivers, and all the same OEM British cross-over components as the authentic item, with a few of my own cabinet improvements. My system wasn't nearly as good as what I'm listening to now, but on one of my John Klemmer albums there was a cut with a very pronounced Fender Rhodes solo. It never failed to amuse me when my friends would open the closet door to the right rear of the couch they were seated in, looking for a hidden speaker(or the Rhodes). Don't ask me how that worked. It's not my story or theory. It's fact and personal experience. OH- by the way: Why would a test CD include an imaging test that expects your system to re-create sounds two feet beyond the outside of the speaker's position if it's not possible? Even the 'Max O Man' cut on one of my Fourplay CDs projects someone popping their fingers to the left of my listening position. No fancy phasing, audiophile label or hologram generation. Just a well engineered CD, well tuned system and listening environment. Try those CCa's in your BAT. If the rest of your system/room combination are up to it: you may just find some amazing stuff hidden in your music collection. Of course: if the rest of your system employs tubes: you may have to replace some of those as well. The driver and phase splitter tubes in my SLM-100s are both 6SN7's but I have to use a Sylvania 6SN7W(tall bottle) and a TungSol VT231(black round plate) in each amp to get the sound stage I'm describing(let's not discuss the cost of my cables). None of this has come cheaply, but- it's all very real and brings me that much closer to my ideal: the sounds I hear when I'm mixing the stuff live.

Rodman99999, Note in my test disc recommendation I mentioned the value of the 'out of phase' cut on the Sheffield disc. Unlike other disc's with barking dogs (Ralph on Stereophiles 1st one) used in and out of phase (typically mono signals I believe) this cut is a stereo signal out of phase and a well set up set of speakers can produce sound 'coming from all about the room'. This is so great because you may 'think' that you have already correctly set up your speakers and listening position based on in phase stereo signals (like recorded music). In one set up which sounded just great(!) I thought, when I played the out of phase signals there was a strong shift in the out of phase info to the left wall just forward of the speaker. Moving my chair an inch or so to the right changed the out of phase presentation to equal amounts of sound outside the left and right speakers both behind the plane and in front of the speakers and to a small degree in the area behind the listening position.

That cut as well as the 'walk about' has been very helpful. This may not be a test disc very usable for the original poster but I think it is very helpful if you're really bent on getting the 'best' set up possible.