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On The Feeding And Care Of Vienna Mahlers

As already you may have gleaned from several threads, I have fallen in love with the Vienna Mahlers during the 2006 RMAF, where I listened to them repeatedly and at length in the excellent Rowland / Soundings / Sumiko suite. At the time, they were driven by a Primare CD21 CD player, Rowland Concerto preamp, Rowland 312 stereo amp.

No longer able to resist, I decided to retire my Maggies IIIAs, and ordered a pair of Mahlers in Rosewood livery during late August, and have received them a couple of weeks ago, crated in their coffins. Soon after, they were hoisted up the stairs to the loft with the help of a stout hand-cart and of a 'few good men'--you know who you are. . . and thanks a bunch guys! Why is it that anything good has to weigh almost 200lbs?

Well, now they are all connected, via a set of emergency Monster speaker wires, while my trusted Cardas Golden Refs are awaiting to be shipped to Cardas for retermination. They are at the end of a fully balanced chain consisting of TEAC Esoteric X-01, ARC Ref 3, Rowland model 7M balanced (latest series made 1989 with trans-impedance modules and rear primary power switches). ICs are Audioquest Skys. Temporarily, I am running the Mahlers with woofers facing outward, speakers cantered in by perhaps 7 degrees. Speakers are approximately 22 inches from a half wall behind them, and are standing about 77 inches apart center to center. Because of the shape of the listening loft -- which has a passage on its right leading to the stairs -- i cannot center them evenly from the side walls: the front of the left speaker is 28 inches from the wall, while the right speaker sits 60 inches from the right wall. The listening loft is a carpeted area having stippled walls approximately 17 feet x 19 feet with a half wall along the long side where the system is situated. The ceiling is coffered with a max height of perhaps 12 ft. The half wall opens to an even larger area that extends downstairs to the house entrance. The carpeted floor of the loft is in turn covered by an extremely thick 9 X 12 ft wool rug. A couch sits close to the windows opposite the stereo.

At approx 60 hours of break in, the Mahlers were already making wonderful music; the treble opening nicely; midrange already solid and textured; the bass deepening; staging and imaging fleshing out. At 68 hrs some -- I trust temporary -- excessive warmth sat in. I can only guess about their sound once they stabilize, and only then I will write a full review. In the meantime I'd like to hear from other audiophiles about their experiences/opinions of the Mahlers.

Here are some possible topics for discussion:

Any experiences connecting speaker wires to Mahlers via maggie Pins? The socket on the 5-way binding post of my Mahlers is marginally too narrow for the Maggie Pins on my Cardas Golden Ref speaker wires. . . I can fit 1 connector out of 4 only.

Total speaker break in time, and expected performance/sonic fluctuations during break in.

The eternal debate. . . woofers out or woofers in?

Experiments with bass and treble management dip-switches?

Effect of front grilles on/off?

Ideal distance from back wall / side walls?

Ideal angling?

Amplifiers and speaker wires that in your experience match well or do not match well with Mahlers.

Things that in your view Mahlers excell at, and areas they may not do so well.

That's it from my end. . . . 'tis your turn now guys & girls!

Guido
guidocorona
baam23f
32 posts
 
Few days ago I swapped my mahlers sideways for curiosity. I have a cluttered living room, large enough but L shaped. Not an easy task for the mahlers. However, with the woofers facing each other, i can clearly notice an increase in output in the region 100hz - 80hz. Not
exactly a good thing but its a matter of personal opinion. It make the sound bold. I enjoy them either ways. However I will return them to the original place. I also have a rel stadium iii to complement the very last octave, crossed at 22hz. I set the mahlers without spikes on the wood floor. The amp is a. Bryston 4bsst.
downunder
1,329 posts
 
" Does anyone know if woofer grilles are removable as well? "

Yes you can, you need to pull on the material a litle bit as from memory they are stuck on with valcro. I just pulled one off to look at the woofer, then put it back on.
guidocorona OP
4,298 posts
 
Just a small change and. . . Oh My God!

The Monster speaker wires I have been using 'temporarily' for the last two months are finally gone. I managed to fit my Cardas Golden ref speaker wires onto the Mahlers. , in spite of the Maggie pins on them being just slightly too thick. . . on a hunch I applied some 3200 grit Aluminum oxide sand paper and just a slight amount of elbow grease to a couple of the
most obsteperous pins, and. . . voila! No retermination to spades needed. . . Now the wires fit perfectly. . . and what a difference they make. . .
I have now just over 180 hrs on the Mahlers. I am operating them with woofers facing inward, and 12 to 15 degrees of toein. Still no spikes under them. . . . these will come into place after some more twiddling with placement. Glorious is the operative word. . . I
am now finally starting to hear that sound of music that made me fall in love with the Mahlers in Denver. Glorious tight and deep/musical bass (no bloat), a midrange to die for, extended treble without a trace of harshness, speed, delicacy, authority, solid imaging and staging.

In the meantime my Ref 3 has racked over 2,000 hours on its original set of 6H30s, and I was thinking to get new 6H30 tubes for it. I am
thinking about EH6H30Gs from the Tube Store in Hamilton (Ontario). Similar to the standard Sovtek, but with Gold plated contacts and cost $23 each. Anyone tried them? Can't
afford 6H30DRs at this time, and I wonder if the EH may be slightly higher grade than the Sovtek version provided by ARC. Any other suggestions?

Babybear suggests that a tube change on my Ref 3 may be unwarranted at this time, and I would get a much bigger bang for the same microscopic buck if I upgraded my home-builder-grade duplex AC outlet I use for the Ref 3 and the TEAC X-01 to an Oyaide R1, and perhaps the standard fuse on the Ref 3 to an Isoclean. Not a bad idea at all, as the junky outlet is starting to fall apart anyhow. Opinions?
dcstep
1,518 posts
 
12-03-07: Tpy said:
"When Rod from Soundings set up my Mahlers he told me that whether the woofers face in or out is very room dependent. He ended up setting mine up facing out, and doing a few things differently than the way I had set them up. They sounded very good when I first got them but much better after he set them up. I add another recommendation for the Sumiko set up if that is at all possible."

Tpy, did you watch Rod do the set up? If so, isn't amazing how much the sound changes with very small moves?

I'm just amazed how few take the advice to get a Sumiko set. It's like we're talking to the wall, yet this is one of the biggest things I've ever seen to fully integrate a system. We're talking about gross changes, like woofers in or out, when it's little tiny moves that get everything right. That hump in the bass the Guidocorona notices might be dialed out with a 2" move.

Rod literally made my Beethoven Baby Grands sound twice as big, while keeping the midrange and imaging totally integrated. Even after 40-years of audiophilia, I couldn't have done it without Rod's help. I'd get the bass right, but screw up the mids, or vice versa. Even with his training and experience, it took Rod and hour and a half to set my speakers. I'd spent two months and had great mids and imaging, but there was still glare left in that totally evaporated.

Have Sumiko set your speakers, if at all possible. It's crazy to spend money on cables before you do that, IMHO.

Dave
guidocorona OP
4,298 posts
 
Yes, if possible I will obtain a Sumiko setup. No intention of changing wires at this time. I have own these Cardas Golden refs for more than 5 years and have used them for all this time on Maggie IIIAs. . by the way, Cardas Golden Refs are the very speaker wires used by Soundings on the Mahlers at RMAF.

Yesterday, on Antonin Dvorak: Complete Piano Music, Inna Poroshina (Brilliant Classics), I could not detect any of the feared excess in the bass. Rather, bass was authoritative,deep, tuneful, quick, harmonically correct. I will do more listening/analysis in the next several days on different recordings.
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